[Music] Welcome everyone to On the Offense. This
is our 23rd podcast. It's hard to believe we've come this far. Um I'm Jeff
Palmer. I'm here with my business partner John Clintenning. Hi folks. We're here to talk to you about a pretty
interesting subject today. Yes, John. Go ahead. Question. Are you sure it's not our
24th? Because that would mean a full trip around this
whole year. Yeah, that would be 24 gentlemen. Yes. Wow. I'm one off. So, it's been a whole
year. We're still surviving. You're still surviving. That's all good, right?
Anyway, today's kind of an interesting one. It's a little bit different. You know, are you on brand with your your
customer base? Um, I'll let John talk a little bit more about that, but it's it's an interesting subject, especially
given some of the things that have happened around here in Dallas recently. But John, you want to take it from here?
Sure. Apologies in advance. We are feeling a little bit unhinged today, are
we not, Jeff? Well, I'm completely unhinged. Halloween theme, you know. So yeah,
we're a little unhinged today for two reasons that I can think of. One is it
is finally freaking cooling down here. Thank God. Hallelujah.
Um people in a big way today. In a big way today for the first time.
Um people on campus today, I'm in my campus office at the University of North Texas. Students are walking around in
sweatshirts. How great is that? So that's unhinged in a good way. And by the way, when we say
unhinged, it was two or three podcasts ago where we talked about feeling unhinged. And we had warned all of you
in advance that we might go a little bit off the rails, which is part of why I'm saying this. We actually hope that's a
good thing because it's probably more entertaining. But the other reason we're feeling a little unhinged is on the
negative side. And that is because we live in Dallas and we like sports. And
it is not a good time right now to be a Dallas sports fan. Not
now. Jeff, now Jeff and I are both transplants, but we've been here long enough now, 25 years, that we've formed
some local bond bonds with the local teams. I would argue, tell me what you think about this, Jeff. I would argue
that by far the most important
pro sports team in Dallas is the Cowboys. By far. By far. Win or lose.
No question. No question. In general. In general. And in absolute.
Yes. No question. I would also argue that the second most
important team in the Metroplex is the Mavs.
I think that's fair. I think that's fair. I mean, the I'm a Rangers fan. I think baseball's
great, but I mean, the Mavericks probably capture the spirit of Dallas better than
Yeah. better than the Rangers. What What do people seem to care the most about, right?
So, guess what's happened with the stupid Cowboys and the stupid Mavs?
Okay, they're both stupid because they both traded their best player, the
Mavericks, on February 1st of this year, a day that will live in infamy in Dallas
sports history. I'm not kidding. People remember that date around here. They
traded Luca Donitz to the Lakers. We can get into why. Um, we're going to get more into this as we go through the
podcast, but I'm just saying that's what happened. Now, everybody kind of knows that that was a really big deal in the
sports world. The Cowboys probably what, a week before the season started this
year, something like that. Well, let me let me announce this one because this is my university. We're
fellow alum. Ah, right. But but the Cowboys traded Micah Parsons, who was their biggest
emerging star, and it just totally boggled the mind, especially for what
they got. So, um, John, I'll hand it back to you, but this is, uh, stuff that
had all our heads spinning. Yeah, they traded him right before the season started. Not because they didn't
think he was good. The Mavericks thought Luca was out of shape. Didn't like how he didn't play defense. There's nothing
on the field that the Cowboys didn't love about Michael Parsons. They just couldn't agree to a contract with him,
so they unloaded him. So, here we are. Okay. And if you think about it, how many months of the year is the NFL and
the NBA in action at the same time? It's probably only what, three months? Yeah. Yeah. At most. Three months.
November, December, J. Call it three, four months. This is one of those times of the year when the when the NBA and
the NFL are both in action. So, we are now suffering
at the hands of both franchises because the the the Cowboys are what,
three, four and one, I think they are, I believe. So, they've got a losing record. That's not a normal thing.
And and frankly, that's actually better than I thought they'd be.
Like, they've been in most games, but the problem is they have great offense, but they cannot stop anyone. Gee,
wouldn't it be nice to have Michael Parsons? Right. It would be, right? There might be a little bit of a pass rush, huh?
Right. But then the Mavs have now started. The NBA season has now started. The Mavs have had the first four games
at home and now have a fifth game at home tomorrow. So they What a nice gift
wrap by the league. Oh, here you go. You get to start the season with a fiveame home stand. Who gets to do that? Well,
guess what? They played four games. They're one and three. They're off to a horrible start. And wouldn't it be nice
if old Luca could be putting up some three-pointers. So, everybody's unhappy in Dallas right
now about sports and we're a little unhinged about that. So, we're going to bring that back as we get into the main
theme for today. Do you want me to talk about the theme, Jeff? I think that would be great. I think
that would be great. And we're going to have some fun with this theme. There's going to be a little game show action involved here. We're going to engage
every one of you. So, uh, if you're interested, give us a call. You can give us our next there's going to be a little
game game show action. That's the term. Absolutely. We are going to have a little game show
action. We're going to have some fun. So, the theme for today is are you on brand? That's kind of the main thing.
And the second part of that is, are you on brand? especially after you've
angered your customer base, right? So, it's always important to be on brand in your marketing and communications, but
we would argue even more important if you've gone through some sort of market
issue, especially if it was self-induced. So um and if you know you think about
Jeff even you and I have talked in recent months about some of the
situations out in the market you know companies that have gone through this crisis or that crisis. Remember the here
we are in our 24th podcast. Remember our second podcast was on food. Remember
that and food food crisis, right? And um you were talking about that meats
company. Oh, Borshead. Bors Head. And when the next time you go
to the deli, are you going to have some Bor's head or not? Right. Anyway, um and
and you know what started that was the regional crisis that McDonald's had in the mountain time zone.
Yes. about something about some it was contaminated quarter pounders
with cheese and it ends up it was their Taylor Farms provider.
Oh my god. Right. Contaminated lettuce. Yes, that's right. So, and then more
recently we've had a lot of fun with Cracker Barrel. Right. Who who in the market world hasn't had
fun with Cracker Barrel? you know. So, um I was thinking about that and you know
what are they doing? What are they doing to get past the problem that they had
Cracker Barrel, right? And at least from what I can tell and and the short version is they were going to rebrand
completely and um everyone had a nervous breakdown. So they caved in, kept the
current logo and decided to not uh
rebrand the the restaurants inside essentially, right? That's okay. But what are you doing
outside of all of that to bring people into the restaurants? And you know what
I've noticed? I don't know if these billboards have always been there. I don't think so,
though. But because in the last couple of weeks, I have really noticed a series
on the way from where I live in the city in Dallas out here to Denton. I'm on the road for 45 minutes with no traffic,
right? So you billboard after billboard and I have noticed a series of Cracker
Barrel billboards that I had never seen before. And they're really well done. I have to say they must be really going in
all in on breakfast because think of these two think of these two oneliners.
The copywriters did great work here. It's 800 a.m. somewhere.
As a Jimmy Buffett fan, I like that. Exactly. It's 8 a.m. somewhere. And and it's a picture of like ham and eggs,
right? Uhhuh. The next one, Rise and Dine. Rise and
die. Love it. Love it. And then the other one was, and this one
I had seen before, but those two I just mentioned, I had never seen before. A picture of eggs. And then it says in the
words, not pictured, world's greatest pancakes.
Right. They must be going all in on breakfast. Now, that may or may not be new. I think they may have bought
billboard space. Oh, I I think so, too. Probably. I I mean, I can remember when they were
running billboards that talked about their new fried chicken. That was a big push,
but not not the series of billboards you're talking about now. Yeah. It's literally one after the other
after the other. They And so, so I think there's a good lesson here, right? I mean it it as those of you who know who
follow this podcast, what we do is we take something that uh that take
something that's going on in the world and we kind of dissect it through the lens of marketing and communications.
And I say good for them. They've taken the message to the people, right, by buying these extra billboards. Again,
I'm assuming that's what's happened. um as opposed to okay sorry we're not gonna
rebrand and let's just hope that everybody comes back right they're not hope is not a strategy
no we've all heard that right so anyway so any examples from
your end Jeff that you've seen out there that of companies that um have been in a
little bit of duress and how they're trying to handle it well what what I go back to and it's a
long time ago and we talked about we don't get too outdated in our examples, but you're holding a a Coke um cup and
think about Coca-Cola Classic. I they they saw that they were losing share to Pepsi in the market. So, they came up
with this market marketing idea is let's make Coke taste more like Pepsi and they came up with New Coke. Well, there's
such a backlash from that. New Coke failed and ultimately they came in with Coca-Cola Classic which revitalized
revitalized a beloved brand and totally breathed new life into the marketing
efforts of the company. I think that's probably the best example of anything that I've seen. Um because it it they
they stumbled they stumbled into a solution. You know, I don't think you you fix something that's not broken and
I think they found out it really wasn't broken. I would agree. I would agree. Now, maybe
they were losing share. I I don't know. But
annoying your customer base is generally not a good strategy to winning,
right? Um all right. So, so the theme for today is are you on brand? Um
especially if you've annoyed your customer base, right? But the f the most important part is the first part. So,
the inspiration for the first part of our theme today is a new show that
debuted on NBC at the end of September. So, Jeeoff, it's only been out there for about a month. I want to say they've
done three or four episodes and it is literally called On Brand and it is
hosted by Jimmy Fallon. Uh, it's on NBC one night a week, something like that.
And I think it's streaming on Peacock as well, NBC on property. And what they do is they have um they have chosen they
have handpicked a team of creative types
uh uh people who who do creative in the
marketing and communications world that you hear the word creative and I I think of an ad agency but I don't think these
people are all from ad agencies. Okay. Right. Right. pick this team to come to
New York and to compete with one another to see who can create the best campaign
for a real client. And the example that I've seen is um when they had and and
for a real client and so you know so you've you've got people up on the stage competing if you will presenting to the
judge and the judge is the CMO and and I think maybe a small handful of others
from the company as well. In this case the example I saw was Dunkin Donuts. They had the CMO of Dunkin Donuts.
And so I from what I can gather, this show is part Shark Tank, part Survivor,
right? It's Shark Tankesque in the sense that they're in a very Shark Tank type
of set. Um, and you've got the judges sitting where Mark Cuban and some of
those people would normally sit and then each person on the team takes their turn
individually and presents a campaign idea to the CMO and the other people in
the so-called onbrand agency that Jimmy Fallon has put together. They're kind of
in the audience as well. Uh, oh, hold on. I can't see anymore. There you go. Hi, Jeff.
Hey, John. Yeah, I lost you for a minute. Um,
so from that standpoint, it's Shark more Shark Tank, but it's also part survivor because apparently one of these
creatives is essentially voted off the island every week. And so you're trying
to get down to the point where you are the winning creative who presented the best at that point series of campaign
ideas to the CMO. Would you watch that? What do you think of the the the uh the
premise, Jeff? I I I like the premise of it. I I don't know if I'd watch it every week, but
it's certainly interesting. And John, I actually went on to YouTube. I watched one of the episodes. It was about
Pillsbury. Ah, yeah. And you know, the the Doughboy, the popping fresh, and they had a a group of
people, you know, pitching different ideas, and I'm not sure which one won because the video ended, but um yeah,
they won. It was just, oh, you know, the sensory emotions you feel when you smell
something from Pillsbury baking in the oven or when you open up the thing of the Hungry Jack biscuits and it pops and
one pops out and it's just all these sensory feels around it. And that it was kind of a neat thing. I liked it. And uh
don't know who's going to win, but it was interesting. And the the the way the judges viewed all it, they talked about
the emotions, the connections. Um, and I think that's all key to good marketing
and good advertising. I'm gonna say six words. Okay.
It's a It's food related. Tell me what movie this was from. It's the Stay Puff
Marshmallow Man. Uh, Ghostbusters. 100%. 100%. That is great marketing.
Talk about it. That is great marketing. Yeah. take
off marshmallow man. So, so the theme here is are you on brand? And now you
can see where the inspiration came from. The second part which is are you on
brand especially if you've annoyed your customer base comes from the the angst with which Jeff and I and millions of
our fellow Dallas citizens are living right now thanks to the bad stupid
decisions by both the Mavericks and the Cowboys both of whom are playing now and
both of whom are losing losing losing thing.
Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. Here's what we're going to do. What was the term you introduced a few minutes ago? Game show
action. Yeah. You're gonna get some game show action here. We're gonna we're gonna get some game
show action, baby. So, all right. So, um Hey, you're TBEC and I'm Sjack.
Wait, say that again. You're Alex Tbeck. I'm Pat Sjack. That's right. Game show action here.
That's right. But we're the contestants. Well, that's true. That's true. We contestants. So, here's what we're
going to do as part of our game show action. Jeff is going to present his
idea for what the Cowboys can do to bring
fans back into the fold, right? And I suppose your campaign idea, I'm going to
assume that it's your idea whether they're continuing to lose or not. the
marketing people. Hey, marketing is powerful, but we can't go onto the field and win games, right? Correct. Same with
the Mavs. Okay. The CA the the rules of engagement and we had a green room
discussion of this, right? And we're not hearing this for the correct that Yeah. the uh the advance teams for
both candidates met in advance and the campaigns are supposed to be uh
integrated. Uh so not just uh oh here's a new ad campaign uh but they're
supposed to represent different channels if you will for the marketing and communications spectrum. And so
integrated brand promotion or integrated marketing communications campaigns. What can these
two teams do to bring fans back into the fold? And I guess I would say Jeff,
especially if they continue to lose because doesn't winning. Winning solves everything. If they start to win, it's
sports. We wear our heart on our sleeve. I suppose we'd start paying more
attention and we'd be happy and maybe go to more games. But marketing is a lot harder when the product isn't winning,
whether it's on the field or on the shelf, right? Yeah. The question now, ladies and
gentlemen, who is our Jimmy Fallon? Who is the judge
and the jury of Jeff and John? And the answer is the one and only
Gellman. Yeah, [Music]
that's right. That's right. Let's go. Let's go. So, uh, for those of you who are, um, loyal
followers of On the Offense here, Gellman is our executive producer. Um,
and she is going to be the judge. So, we are each going to present to her. Um and
uh she is then going to share her uh
views with each presenter on how they did and uh and then Gilman ultimately
will declare a winner. Now um one thing we didn't talk about when we met with
the each each of the campaign uh teams is what does the winner get? Now, Jeff,
I'm tempted to offer you again the Green
G Brent Ryan College of Business, UNCC football, but I've already promised this
to you on a prior podcast. So, I don't think we can use that.
Um, you know what we could do? You know what we could do? We could say the winner of this contest, of this game
show action, wins a sort of clean
clients first. Woohoo. Marketing and communications hat.
I think that is a fair price. You think that's you think that's good? I very proud. One that I'll cherish forever if I get
it. By the way, maybe a little teaser. We've got some exciting news coming up
relative to what you're looking at in the coming weeks. Maybe we should leave it at that, Jeff.
Why don't we leave it at that? You know what? Below the surprise, we have exciting marketing news coming
from our agency in the coming weeks. So, Gellman, are you ready for the first Oh,
the other thing we should decide as part of Jeff, our game show action.
Does Gelman comment? Whoever goes first here, maybe we need a coin toss. Um, but
whoever goes first here, does Gellman give that person live feedback right
away or does Gellman wait till we're both done and then give everybody feedback at once?
I think she should wait until we're both done. I tend to agree with that. She won't have anything to compare it
against. Lucy, it's going to be like a real show. Okay. I tend to agree with that. And you
know what, Jeeoff, that pains me to say it because I don't like agreeing with you. I don't care for it.
I don't like it either with you. We get unhinged at the mere thought of each other.
Hinged. All right. Uh Gellman, do can you do some sort of virtual coin toss or
something something to figure out who to go? Absolutely. Okay. Give it one second.
Allighty. Are we ready? I'm ready. We are ready. We just need to know who
goes first and then who chooses heads and who chooses tails? Jeff, I defer to you.
I'll choose heads. Alrighty. Ready? Three, two,
flipping. It's tails. Yeah.
All right. All right. So, all right. So, I'm up first. All right. This is
exciting. I I kind of like it when my team defers to the
second half. So I actually I was thinking that too, but you know what? I don't Oh, wait a minute. Do this.
You're You won the coin toss. You get to cho choose. I defer.
Seriously, you defer. I want the second half kickoff. Always.
Okay. Okay. So, I'll I'll start it out. So, what what do we need to accomplish? I'm
not neither. The Cowboys have stumbled with a major decision and and you know I think it's
largely agreed upon that Micah had emerged as the best defensive player in
the NFL or at least you know among the top three and uh so how do you get over that and
why on earth would you trade him at the beginning of the season especially when you're trying to get Jerry Jones who's
how old now? 83 or 84. He wants to get to the Super Bowl again. he's not going to do it just by wishing
it. So, you know, why trade away your best player? So, here I'm going to put together a little strategic framework
and it's got to blend certain things. You know, brand storytelling, fan engagement, digital in innovation, and
maybe community relevance. So, let's let's get on with it. So, I'll I'll quiz
you guys. You know, what is it that makes the Cowboys America's team?
winning. Winning that's part of it. Roger Stalach.
Well, Roger Stach, Roger the Dodger, he was a captain comeback. He was fantastic. But symbolically, it's the
star. Yeah. On the side of the helmet. And that star should unite all of us. Not only us.
Well, we used to be young. Now we're middle-aged, I'd say. Um,
hey, not even close. Okay. I'm I'm still a young buck. Yeah. Um anyway, you know, there are different
people. What's the emotional core of this team? You've got the people who date way back to when the Cowboys first
broke into the league. And uh yeah, there's great heritage in this team, and that's one of the things that makes it
very special. So, you got the people there who saw Don Meredith quarterback the team and were there for the early
days, saw the Cowboys bloom, uh were there from the very beginning with Tom
Landry. Um, so you've got that group that that that generational divide. And
so that's that's the emotional core of the team when you look at it from from
that aspect. Then you got those of us who came along a bit later and we saw
that 1970s, 1980s version of the team and that was the next generation. One
thing that's always been there is great players, great game plans, everything else. So that's the second group you
need to um you need to capture. And then you've got a third group, all these young people. Um, mainly those who
weren't around in 1995, the last time the Cowboys won the Super Bowl against
John, you want to answer who it was against? The Pittsburgh Steelers. Yes. That's why I don't like you. You
know, things like that. I know. Yeah. So, knows the Steelers are Jeff's boyhood
team. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know who to believe here that the Steelers
are going to get to their past glory. It's going to be pretty hard. So, yeah. So, you got your core loyalists, you got
your nextgen fans, you got a national audience who believe Cowboys are America's team. I had a fraternity
brother who was from Maryland, and he was a diehard Cowboys fan. And I always
asked him why. Wow. Yeah. And his answer was, I I really don't know. So, it's just capturing
people like that. Uh it's it's amazing. And then you got a global growth market.
But the one thing you do have, and whether he's a good general manager or not, it's Jerry Jones, who is the master
market, got into the Hall of Fame, the Football Hall of Fame. Probably not because of the team success, even though
he won two Super Bowls, right? I think three, three in the first five years that he
owned the team. Two with Jimmy, one with Barry Switzer, right? Um, so you know, you've got that
master marketer. So what do we do with this? Um, as I thought about it, you
know, that first prong, creative pillars, it's the legacy, right? The legacy of the team. You got these
wonderful people. Yeah. Aman beats meets Dak. You've got Roger Stalk way back.
Um, you could put it into like a three-part YouTube series and social series. And you've got a visual tone
that would be kind of cinematic. You got a Texas proud tone, myth it but human.
And then you've got the star experience. Well, a big part of marketing is immersing your audience into whatever
you're selling or whatever you're trying to get them to experience. So, how do you activate these Cowboys fans? You
know, I've heard it said that you you can go into a stadium like the one in Kansas City or the one in Seattle where
the the noise is deafening, but you can go into AT&T stadium, also known as
Jerry World, and you can't really tell whether it's a home game or an away game. So, how do
you get these people involved? Well, maybe get on them on the field to catch a pass from Dak Prescott or um you know,
via the Cowboys app. You could do something like that. um create digital collectibles like the Star unites us and
then integrate sponsors. You got Pepsi, Ford, AT&T, co-branded activations, you know, some
pretty neat ideas there or possibilities, let's say, not ideas. Um,
modern Cowboys voice, you know, what what is the Cowboys social presence?
More humor, behind the scenes authenticity, and fanenerated content. How could you use uh Tik Tok, Instagram
reels, you know, players showing their personalities? Um, think of uh CD Lamb's
fashion drops. For God's sakes, there's all kinds of stuff out there. And then you can have like an under the star
weekly challenge where fans post what the Cowboys mean to them and a chance to be featured at a home game. And then
finally, or maybe it's not finally, we do the community collection. We get
we get the communities around here involved. Have Friday night stars, you know, traveling series spotlighting
Texas high school football teams and players who embody Cowboys values. And
finally, you can do something they already do. You know, partner with the Salvation Army, veterans organizations,
youth sports initiatives to showcape real showcase real impact stories. And
finally, let's think back to some things they've already done. Well, they already have a Thanksgiving Day game, which puts
them in the national spotlight every year, if only for a day, and they probably have the most iconic
cheerleading squad of any sports franchise in the world. Um, how do you
leverage that? So, you've got all these built-in celebrities, you got all these people, you can get directly involved in
the fans, and I think that's kind of exciting. And whether they win or whether they lose, you've got all these
aspects. This is this is a hugely positive legacy the Cowboys have whether
they win or lose right now. And you got people who can see it for all it is. It's not just this year and last year,
but it's going back through the history. You know, you add up the number of Super Bowls. It's stunning. So with that, I'll
turn it over to John. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you, John, for being Thank you, Jeff.
So, all right. Now, so, so the the the situation that Jeff described that
raised this is an issue was the trading of Michael Parsons. Call it Labor Dayish, right before the
season. Well, I'm going to take you back to earlier in the same calendar year
um when the Mavericks traded Luca Donuch. Um, and uh, that was a Saturday
night at 11:00. All of a sudden, everybody's phones are blowing up. I'm
having to call my son at and keep him away from the ledge. I was
checking on the welfare of my son because the team traded his favorite player
and he was just one of many. The entire city essentially had a nervous breakdown
and the chant that started pretty quickly was fire Nico
and it took on a life of its own because they still had I mean it's February 1st they still had what two and a half more
months of games to play and so all you would hear for the next two plus months
at the arena was fire Nico and and it seemed like all 18,000 people in the
arena were chanting it. Um whether they were or not, many of them were. And um
they would be chanting that regardless of the score, regardless of who the opponent was, whatever. It was so bad.
The whole situation became really toxic. But the situation went from bad to
worse, all by self-induced stupidity by the maps. Um, in the days
and weeks that followed this trade, they announced the raising of ticket prices.
Are you kidding me? Maybe the single dumbest thing I've ever seen a team do.
Um, number one. two, they uh did interviews
in which they threw Luca under the bus as a way to try to explain what everyone
was having such a problem with, which made them look mean-spirited. Luca, as a very wealthy, very public
person was clearly devastated himself. And so they uh lowered themselves to
personal attacks on him. And then the third thing, which didn't have to be so
bad on its own, but the timing just didn't help, was the newly appointed
president of the Mavs was all of a sudden doing interviews on the fact that they were going to be
moving to a new arena in Irving, not too far away, but it's you're either
in this, you're either downtown or you're not, right? Um, and it was just
yet another sign of radical change that people were our heads were just spinning. So, they took a difficult
situation and and I'll say difficult situation even if they made the right basketball move, which most people don't
think they did, but all I'm saying is they were just throwing all this stuff at us. Okay? And keep in mind, the
expectations of the fan base had been raised really high because we had just
been to the freaking finals. Exactly. Right. Not like they were trying to fix
some losing situation, right? So So here's my recommendation. It's It's a
little bit It's not unlike the Cracker Barrel thing. Let's just, you know, focus on breakfast. Rise and dine. It's
8 a.m. somewhere. just get people back to focusing on the product which is the
great food, the comfort food that Crackle Cracker Barrel has long been
known for. Right. So my whole thing is focus on the new core players pure and
simple. You talked a lot about heritage and I get all of that. Hey, the Cowboys have
uh a heritage second to none in professional sports in the United
States, right? Um I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about looking back in time. I'm not talking about honoring
players from the past. I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about focus on today. Focus on the now. Um
because if you think about it, isn't that the product? that is the the the the plate of bacon and eggs. That's the
product is is the players. So, focus on the new core players because as bad as
this trade was in a real andor at least perceived way, you still have a lot of
really good players on the team. Best of whom is injured Kyrie Irving,
unfortunately. But he's around the team. He's, you know, he's working on his knee. So I tend to think of marketing
and communications through the lens of paid, owned, and earned media. Okay. So
the paid media, I think what they should be doing, and I've seen nothing of this sort, Jeff, in the city, I think they
should be buying billboards to promote the players. They should have a big fat
picture of Cooper flag on one of these billboards. And then the next exit they
should have a big fat picture of Anthony Davis and then Kai, you know, billboard.
It's the same, right? Billboard after billboard as you lead toward Uptown for those of you who know
who Dallas toward the arena, right? As a way to essentially remind people
that, hey, we we we traded away our most recognizable face, but we have a lot of
other faces, right? And these are well-known, accomplished players. Even
Cooper Flag, he's very well known because of how prominent he was at Duke.
So that's paid owned. You should be doing a social campaign that features
different players on your team and not shooting free throws, but doing things
in the community. What do they do at home? What do they do to prepare for uh
going to the arena on a game day? I read an article uh as I was preparing for this podcast
and the and I'm and I'm Jeff I'm uh I'm paraphrasing the headline but it's pretty close. Derek Lively appears to be
the Maverick's entire social strategy and and it was not an article from the
last week. It was over the last few months and the point was the Mavericks are blowing out Derek Lively on social.
Um, and so I looked it up, but but only him, right? Why only him? Why would they
not do him and then Anthony Davis and then Nazi Marshall and Max Christie? Why
would that not be a series like a campaign instead of just picking one one guy?
Well, they should be doing that now. They should be doing a new player. This is Cooper Flag week and then next week
it's Derek Lively week. and just reminding people you've got this set of
people who are really good and really engaging and fun and have a good sense of humor and humanize the team beyond
Luca is what I'm saying. Yeah. Um because as great as he is, basketball is a team sport, right? you've got to
have lots of other people um to play their roles and then um and then earned
um I mean I I I I would be setting up interviews with Cooper Flag left and
right. I'd be setting up interviews with Kyrie about his knee. I'd be setting up interviews with Derek Lively about this
or that. Um I'm not seeing that. Maybe I'm not watching the local news enough
here. I'm just not seeing much. I was all over their social media again in
preparation for this podcast. There's a bunch of stuff about the game about, you
know, it's just game stuff, but there's they're not building the personality
of their players in our minds. And it seems all not inauthentic, but just a
little removed, right? it doesn't seem like they're going above and beyond
to connect us with these people at a time when I I would argue that they need to do that, right? And then the last
thing I'd say I I I'll point out is events. You know, these players should be
fanning out into the community left and right. Now, you don't want to go so far that you distract them too much now that
the season has started. But if there's off day, I see no reason why why Anthony
Davis can't be visiting a school or somebody doing this. Maybe they're going to be doing that once the beginning of
the se once they get into the rhythm of the season. I don't see it right now. I checked. I don't see it. I looked them
up in news. There's nothing. What are they doing? Now is the time when we are
deciding whether to whether to reinvest our attention and our time on this team
because it's the first full season without Luca. So it's like, okay, you only get one chance to make a good first
impression. Do we like this new team or do we not? And who is the team? It's the
players. So there you go. That is my pitch. Um, Gilman, over to you.
Hello, folks. She's appeared.
Yes, this is this is Gailman, whose face shows up periodically. You people know me. You know my voice.
At least the pride of the University of Georgia. Go dogs, baby.
That's right. And then maybe the commercial I hate more than any other is where that guy
into the meeting with his boss and she has a Georgia mug and he go dogs and
starts to bark. Oh yeah, classic. I saw that last weekend. Yeah,
most people do start to bark if they're from Georgia. So I'll spare you. I'll
spare you today. Um well done, gentlemen. Excellent job. Um I do have
questions. Um, a couple questions. Um,
first things first, um, I thought both were very interesting specifically
because I am not a big sports person. So, so I'm an interesting use case. So,
I understand sports and I I I'm like a fringe person. So, I'm like right on the
line between engaging and not engaging. So, I'm an interesting perfect candidate
to be evaluating this because I'm kind of on the fence either way. And
so, unless you're really selling me, I'm probably going to sit out.
Um, so yeah, and I'm also putting myself back in my Dallas mind because I'm not
currently local to Dallas, but I grew up there, so I kind of am still claiming
it. Um, claiming the expertise, I suppose. Um, so I think I'm gonna start
with yours, John. Um, so one thing about me, and these
gentlemen know this, but I my first thought when it comes to anything is who
are you? Who's the person behind the camera? Who's the person behind the voice, behind the post, behind the
writing? But like who's our CEO? That's why I um stressed to them um how
important a podcast like this would be so we can help you guys get to know um these people that I care very much for.
Um so that's my first thought is I want to know who you are, especially
if these if my favorite is gone and I have no idea who to root for. I want to
root for my home team, but I don't know who who's the new guy, who's the new,
you know, do I want can I look into it? Yes, I can. But on the average, the per
everyone's just going to work going home. They'd like to buy in, but they're not going to take the time out of their
day to go after it, right? So, what are you as the marketing team doing to get in front of them without inconveniencing
them? So I think your suggestion was really interesting to run some really
good social campaigns specifically obviously my first thought is what are
we doing on social because that's where you're going to get the most eyes on you the most people who I mean
even young viewers are important right people who idol start to idolize these players this is a whole part of it um
into creating mentors and role models for people to look up to on these teams, right? Um, and and to hustle after and
to become. So, I want to know their personalities. I
want to know their humor. I want to know, are you an approachable person? Because, especially in this day and age,
as a consumer, I'm looking to spend my money in places that
entertain me and are worth my money. I'm not just spending it anywhere. So, I'm
gonna support the player that I have, even if parasocial, a relationship with.
Um, so I think that would get me in the door is if someone
would just became some kind of personality, right? Right now there's
it's all over, right? A bunch of teams do this, but this would be a great little like gateway in or an alleyway in
is um they have, you know, one of the sports coordinators or one of the like assistant team members or something like
that standing in the entry hallway as team members walk in to to warm up for
practice or warm up for a game and they ask them a really hilarious question or
or um they take a old photo of theirs and say, "Oh, hey, can you sign this and
then they take this photo and realize it's me from middle school and I now have to sign it and it so it immediately
shows their personality. It shows what they used to who they used to be. Shows them as a kid, you know, like maybe
holding a big basketball that's the size of them and it's just like it paints a story for you within a 10second
interaction. Um, and so it's that I mean, talk about
go a gold mine, right? Just those tiny little interactions with the players, getting to know who they are
will spin it again. And then also your billboard idea would second that, right?
So maybe there's a viral moment we can capitalize on and put that up on the
billboard. Maybe there's a slogan or something that's one of the players says
that, you know, starts being a meme or something like that. We can put it up on a billboard and then people will start
asking questions. Who's this guy? What is this? I need to figure it out because
I know, at least for me, driving through Los Angeles, when I see a billboard that doesn't make any sense, I'm immediately
curious. What is that? You know what I mean? Who is this guy?
Why is his face huge on my way? You know, like I'm curious. And of course, if there's a Maverick's association,
you're going to get a bigger audience as well. Um, so great. Loved that. Okay. So
then Jeff, I loved a bunch of it. Um, specifically what was interesting to me
is the fan engagement. You talked about the cheerleaders, right? The cheerleaders are Let me not make too
much noise moving my computer. The cheerleaders are a really unique opportunity, right? where they've
already had one of the biggest, I think, Netflix serieses in the recent years.
Um, they've taken over social media. People are Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders for Halloween more than ever because
they it's an achievable costume. There's dances. It It's a It's approachable to
right now, right? Everyone who's dancing, singing, being creative, moving your body, being a performer is exactly
what the up and cominging generations are looking for. They want something they can stick to like that. Um that can
become trendy and repeatable with their friends online, right? Um I've actually
done the walkthrough of the Cowboys stadium um and been in the stadium. I we
I went to a school specifically um that uh does an experience with the Cowboys
stadium. We get to, you know, do a play a game there and I was a cheerleader in
high school, so we got to go into the um the locker rooms and take pictures in there and just like see it in a
completely different light. And I can't even tell you, it was so fascinating. um you know being down on the field like
having watched so many games with my dad growing up I mean it was totally full circle and then obviously I was a
cheerleader so it felt very full circle for me um but I don't think they put
enough emphasis that this is something that they offer so uh for example I work
for a winery so my immediate thought when you were
talking about audience segmentation that's exactly what we do right We we not to segregate them in any way, but
just to kind of keep keep an idea of who these people are that we're serving,
right? Because that's what we're doing in hospitality. But we have our platinums and you know are like
recurring guests and then maybe guests that um have joined us recently but not
recent enough and we would love for them to come back. You know, what can we do to bring you back in? The community
engagement you were talking about, right? What if that looks like a doing
something even further with the Cowboys cheerleaders and maybe even the players this can be a
personality builder. Maybe it's we do something uh a charity situation especially
because there's a lot of you want to talk about having you know burned your customers a little bit. Um, the Cowboys
have a lot of money and I think they can do a lot of good with it and what a
brilliant, you know, marketing but also genuine investment in the community to
build genuine viewership and um, patronage, right? To invest in the
community. Bring your players. Maybe we're planting trees on the brand new park that's being built nearby, right?
What can we do to actually dive into the community? I think that's a really interesting
and topical thing to do to engage your
community but also try and maybe bring a little bit more positive spin to your
brand. Um, we're looking for winwin situations right now, right? Because
we're think we're seeing backtoback, you might call them mistakes. So, how
can we genuinely just put our best foot forward, right? Really, really
compelling arguments and kind of similar in a way
recommendations, right? Boots on the ground. Tell us who you are. We want to
know this is what the consumer landscape looks like right now. Um, we want the
big word in every single podcast, authenticity. Right? I'm going to do the big Spongebob rainbow authenticity
where it and it's for a reason, right? Again,
we're just we're looking for the humanity in you. Um and so that I think
picking a winner here is impossible. It's so hard. Um
you could just pick a tie. Oh, a tie would work.
I'm gonna do this. How about we do this? Okay. I'm a terrible judge. Um I or I'm
a fair judge. Okay. So, this is my Libra moon. Welcome everyone. I'm very balanced. Um I
I am interested to see what the audience thinks.
I think it would be interesting if we told the audience. Okay, Caroline has her hands up. Both are such good
recommendations. What if we put it in the comments? Tell us option A or option B
and whoever has the most comments in our next broadcast will announce the winner.
Outstanding. That is an outstanding idea. Ideas I've heard in ages.
Does it uh are are you able to steer people in one direction or another based on the level of handsomeness of the
presenter? It's an excellent question to be the case, John. I'd clearly win.
Hey man, listen. I think the audience can make their own decisions there as
well. Hi everyone. Hi everyone. I just I just talk through them. So,
I put sparkles around you. Well done, though. I think either way,
we're seeing a clear directive, right, for both of these brands. And just if
anyone's listening for your brand as well, maybe this, if you've gotten this far, maybe you have a brand of your own
or one that you're in favor of that has done the same thing. Um, if you're not
in a position to tell a bigger brand, maybe you're in a position to work with a smaller one and give these
suggestions. Um, or worked with your own clients. Um, but and don't be afraid to
I suppose my last piece would don't be afraid to like really pull back the onion. Show us how the sausage is made.
Show us behind the scenes. We want to get to know you. You're gonna breathe so much more loyalty than you think that it
might feel invasive. If that makes sense. It totally makes sense. I love this idea. I am all for the
public poll. I love it. I'm all in. I am all in. Neither Jeff nor I would have thought of
that without your assistance. Thank you. I would not have thought of that. I thought that was
You're very welcome. We have to make a pack right now, Jeff. We're going to We're willing to live
with the results. Absolutely. Absolutely. And how about and and the winner
democracy is democracy where free will, free speech wins out.
Clients first hat is on um is is up for grabs here. So that needs to be taken
seriously by our customer base here. So we'll see what happens.
Very good. Thank you. Thank you folks so much. Very well done. Jeff, closing
comments for the public audience. But just just one thing I didn't talk about on the podcast that's kind of
interesting. When you talk about effective marketing and advertising when
I got headhunted by EDS, I was thinking, "Wow, would I really want to go there?"
And then I watched the Super Bowl and I saw that hurting cats commercial, right? Wow, this company has some
humanity, right? Really funny commercial. And that really kind of made
me take that opportunity seriously. So, you know, it just shows you good marketing could go a long way. But
it's a it's a really good point. The the only comment I would offer here is you
know and we always like to filter these closing comments through the lens of helpful comments and tips and takeaways
for people. I would say this um I am the faculty advisor here at for the national
student advertising competition. the the team that's competing in a
national competition with many many other universities uh to do a um an
integrated brand promotion or marketing communications campaign for a real client and uh I shouldn't say who the
client is because it's not really public yet but I will say this in their direction
for the university teams they have asked for and it's in bold uh in well, pardon
the in bold bold ideas. They want bold
ideas. So, you know, I mean, we call this I mean, we call this podcast on the
offense, right? In my agency is all about advising clients how to get on the offense if
you're not already on the offense and then how to stay on the offense. And that comes down to being aggressive, to
being creative, and yes, it comes down to being bold.
And um and so yeah, I mean th those to
me are the better ideas. You know, one of the reasons I liked Meer that I came up with my idea is that I do think it
would be bold for the Mavericks to
not not pretend like the Luca thing never happened, but focus on what you've
got. You've got a lot and just go for it. Put your money into those people
because those people are damn good, too, right? and just be bold and creative and
aggressive and consistent and make it that you cannot drive around this town
without thinking of those players on that team regardless of what you think about the organization because of the
loca trade. Just be bold essentially is what we're
saying and that's typically what we like to say to our clients anyway. So you
want to do our closing commercial Jeff? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, as I know now,
this was episode number 24, which does mean we've gone all the way around the world once. So, we hope to go around the
world again, maybe more than one time, that would be great. Um, but, uh, yeah, please, if you want to talk to us
directly about any of this stuff, if you want to be advised on strategy, if you want to be advised on communications, if
you want to have it done for you, if you want to be advised on a great marketing campaign, we can meet your people. And
we've got a network of people we work with who are equally good trusted associates.
Um, we got it all. We got it all. So, uh, please visit our website. Please visit our social channels. We're on all
of them. And, uh, anyway, I I wish you a wonderful weekend. Please join us again.
Um, and John, final, uh, final words. Happy Halloween, everyone. We are
recording this three days before Halloween. So, by the time you see this, Halloween will be passed. Um, be safe,
be scary, be bold. Be bold. Let me let me uh sign off with
my devil horns. And really, and and let me just say this last comment, Jeff. My strong advice to
you is to not dress as a Dallas Cowboys
cheerleader for Halloween. Just do us a favor and just pick any other costume
other than that. How did you know? I I'm just I had a feeling. I had a feeling.
Oh, thanks everyone. See you later.
See you. [Music]

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