[Music] welcome to on the offense this is the

first of many podcast that John and I my business partner um will be producing

over the next few months and hopefully longer than that it's all about viewing

current events through the lens of marketing PR and Communications in

general our first one is going to be about the American political election coming up in day which is arguably the

most important election of our lifetimes we've got two very different types of

candidates it may be democracy on the ballot there all kinds of different perspectives and we enter this from a

nonpartisan standpoint um we're going to Pro we're going to talk about both sides

but at the same time um we're not going to attempt to endorse a candidate we're

just going to give you our our appeal um opinions on the election the different

messages the brand strategy of each candidate um a little bit about ourselves to begin with um I'm Jeff bomb

um and this is my business partner John clendenning on the other side okay that's all good hi Jeff hi

John um hey we've known for 24 years John yes I have some bad news what I

have decided to move on to my third cup of coffee well that should stir you up

pretty well I apologize in advance for anything I say or do okay well the same goes for me I've

had two cups of coffee so I shouldn't be quite as stirred up as you but it's all

good it's all good I interrupted you you were about to talk about me so right

please keep going let me start out by saying we've started a new PR Communications marketing firm called

client first first marketing and Communications um and it's LLC just so

you you care um and we're going to take and there's our hat um

that's we have swag folks we have swag already and we're trying of course to

develop the client base we've started on that we feel pretty good about where we're going um but we're going to offer

a full Suite of um of PR and marketing Rel

services and tools that can really help you advance your business or your Enterprise or wherever you're calling

from um so first a little bit about us before we move on to the election um

John clendenning um is a season PR and marketing professional he started off as

a reporter he moved on to some very important companies including Honeywell

EDS unisus and as well as working in a PR firm um he's credentialed um I think

you'll find him engaging and insightful and um ultimately you'll see

why I was so repelled when I met him 24 years ago as you should have

been should have John you wanna talk about me I would love to talk about you

Mr Bon so so yeah so uh so Jeff and I met 24 years ago which means we met when

we were like 10 right Jeff or pups exactly uh we met 24 years ago we were

both recruited to EDS uh which back then was a 2ish

billion doll company in the IT services space founded by Ross perau he sold it

over time to GM that's how he became a billionaire in heat ended up running for president himself in both 1992 and 1996

speaking of presidential elections um uh and uh Jeff started one day before me

we shared a wall um and we were immediate both friends and war buddies

both right war buddies because it was an extremely intense environment we you

either uh you either swam is that a word swam you either swam you either swam or

you sunk pretty quickly and luckily um Jeff and I were were up to it you know

we we it was intense it was hard but we had fun with it and I think a lot of that was because we shared a wall and um

we were immediate friends as well we had a lot in common first of all we were the only people that we knew um we uh both

had young families small children we would go out to dinner afterward and tell War Stories basically and we just

kind of kept each other going right in this this New World in Texas Jeff had come from the uh East Coast from New

Jersey I had come from the West Coast in Orange County uh and we kind of met in

the middle and and we just kind of you know made the best of it and had fun with it and I think did some pretty good

work as well so a little bit about Jeff um he started and this is a great

um uh thing to talk about because of the topic at hand today he cut his teeth in

Washington he started his career uh as a congressional a and then he worked as a lobbyist um and so he's he's been in the

hallways of Congress he you know I would assume Jeff that it's one of those things where unless

you've one can only imagine what happens in those hallways unless you've been there right yes it's it's much different

than you may think yeah it was really important to me oh yeah so uh and then

he headed up Financial media relations for Lucent Technologies um which was at that time

when Jeff was heading that up was the most widely held stock in the United States um and so just think of the

expertise the calm the skill the pure skill that is needed to handle a situation like that

that's the situation he left when he came out here to Dallas to work for EDS I can tell you without reservation that

Jeff is the best financial media relations person I have ever seen and I've worked with a lot of them this guy

is a Pros Pro um I can make fun of him all day long and I will probably make

fun of him a little bit on this phone call um but if you have a crisis if you

have a uh if you need to report earnings if you've got anything like that Jeff's

your guy so with that um I think we're gonna start to get into the politics

should we tell people a little bit about the firm maybe just a little I I think that makes sense we don't want to turn

this into a commercial we really we really don't but since this is our first time do you mind if I launch into it a

little bit please John please well thank you Jeff but first but first i'm gonna

have more caffeine beware oh yeah yeah beware so

so yes we are called clients first because of a very simple reason we think

like clients first uh we think like that because the majority of our experience

um you know I've been a journalist been in agencies Jeff's been in politics but the majority of our experience is on the

client side is running Global Marketing Andor Communications for some really

really big companies um and that's how we think we think that

gives us an advantage over other agencies Because unless you've been in that chair it's hard to know what it's

like it's hard to know what your client needs if you haven't been that client if

you will right and so that's why we took that name our Northstar is very simple

uh as an agency we believe that um when you build brand value you increase the

value of the Enterprise um and the factoid that we like to use is a Forbes

reported factoid from I want to say 2021 that says that

19.5% of Enterprise Value derives from Brand value I would like to think that

probably is higher than that I think that's a conservative number quite frankly call it 20% and so we just

fundamentally believe based on our experience that yeah everything around marketing and Communications is all

meant ultimately to drive brand value which drives Enterprise Value now how do you do that it's it's it's again I think

it's fairly straightforward you're do you're trying to do one of two things you're trying to drive profitable Drive

help Drive profitable growth through marketing and Communications through the various tools that are available there

um in the short to medium term A and B you're trying to um build the pipeline

for future growth uh to me those are the two strategies to achieve that objective

of driving Enterprise Value everything else honestly to me is execution not

that execution isn't important um but that's kind of how we look at it right and so we do have a bucket of 12

services that we offer across the entire marketing and communication Spectrum um

and it's pretty broad for a startup um but we do have a full network of people

that we can tap into to help us get this work done on behalf of our clients and we just have experience across all 12 of

those uh all 12 of those services and you know a good PR program or a good ad

campaign or whatever is fine but we also believe that the more of it you can

integrate together the more powerful it's all going to be toward that North Star of driving brand value so Jeff

anything you'd like to add to that yeah and I think this is complimentary to what you just said is I think our our

goal is to make the pr marketing and Communications functions much more than

overhead for the company we're going to be there enabling sales which I think is super important and they'll see you see

us as a value ad the other thing with regard to clients first is we've both worked in major PR agencies and we have

a real good feel of what works and what doesn't work and what we should bring to the table sometimes when you work with a

large agency you'll have the head of the practice there when they're doing the pitch you'll have the uh the head of the

local office there saying oh we're going to do this this and this for you and

when it comes down to Brass Tech what's really happening is you're working with a lot of Junior people

right out of school they're enthusiastic but they don't bring that wisdom John and I have a lot of wisdom we've got um

we've got everything that you could possibly want to do in Communications or

marketing we've either done managed or touched in some way so I think we bring

a lot to the table and we hope you think so um with maybe maybe just add one

comment as a bridge to the to the topic of the day we also believe that everything you

do as a company relative to marketing and Communications needs to be very intentional that's a very important word

um it's one thing for example to drive an internal Communications

program right it's an entirely different thing we believe to drive an employee

engagement program in other words you know we all we've all worked for companies you get these corporate

messages and and part of the idea is to inform you and that's fine but to me

that's table Stakes to us that's table Stakes you need to be driving engagement

you need to be using every message and the campaign

that you develop and the Cadence through which you deliver all of this stuff

everything needs to be done through the lens of engag in other words think of the employee out there who may or may

not be fully engaged in what they're doing for your company right you have to try and engage them the content needs to

be compelling you need to suck them in to what you're doing right that takes a

very intentional approach um in terms of the strategy but also in terms of the way you present the information right um

and let's face it we've all heard you know I mean it's not rocket science right the more employees are in engaged

the more productive they are the less prone they are to quit uh and then you

know for those of you who who've done a lot of hiring you know how much time and money it takes to hire new people it's a

nightmare when you're losing a lot of talent right and so the the view is

intentionality is something that we definitely push our clients on and so

that's why that's one of the reasons we've decided to call this new podcast on the offense

and um when you are a political candidate and I suppose that's that's the bridge to the topic right Jeff um

boy I mean I have to assume bran um if you talk about the Enterprise value of a

candidacy the brand of the candidate forget about 19.5% you know it may be 90% at that

point absolutely there's also you know the candidate himself or herself but there's also policy things and other

things but probably what 80 to 90% of the Enterprise value of a presidential

candidacy is driven by the brand value of the candidate and so um boy you you

talk about intentionality um I believe that both

candidates in this race know exactly what they're saying every time they say it I believe they are being intentional

which is a compliment to both um doesn't always mean it comes out the way they

want it to or is being perceived in the way they wanted to but I believe there is true intentionality on both of their

parts but with that Jeff let's get into the topic yeah and I I totally agree

with John and when we say on the offensive or on on offense we're talking

about I think great PR great branding means you're on the offense all the time

you know what you're saying you drive with your messaging you know there's like four or five messages you have to

get across every time now in football they say a great defense is the best offense well that certainly holds true

as well for a campaign or any public messaging you're doing um and in this

case the the Harris and Trump um campaigns couldn't be more different and

I think Harris certainly has the disadvantage of only being a candidate for 90 days but she also has that

Advantage too she brought enthusiasm she Consolidated the support of her party

and and force Trump to take a different tact um with regard to Trump he's Trump

um there's no mistaking it he still views himself as the change maker as the

anti-washington uh candidate as uh the the guy or the person who will drive us

to to being the most important country in the world about while having America's interests first and that means

nationalism and so that's really an important plank for him and that means taking some

really controversial stances probably around Innovation uh um immigration reform job creation and protecting us

Industries um and his style it's populist it's direct and it can either

be energizing or to some people offensive so they have to get rid they

have to get used to that Persona of Donald Trump um Harris on the the other

hand is trying to you know she's trying to boost

her perception of being someone who unites people um we couldn't have more

opposite um when you look at the political Spectrum in the US right now it's never

been so divided you've got the left wing and you got the far right what we're

missing is the middle and I can I can tell you that when I worked on Capitol Hill and it's been a while since then um

you you had people who like Ronald Reagan he was referred to as the great

communicator and whether you agreed with him or not he gave message that brought

everyone together um on the other side you had tip O'Neal who was viewed as an

amazing speaker of the house they disagreed on everything and they kept that going through every week but on

Friday nights they'd get together they'd talk they'd drink some Irish whiskey

together and we need to get back to that idea that we can all work together we can all like each other I worked for a

very conservative member of Congress um and it was interesting because he his

best friend was the ranking Democrat on the committee oh really oh absolutely I

didn't know that yeah they got together after their hearings and everything else would have a drink together we're Pals

but but you know when that gabble hit the pad you know they're on other sides

and at that point in time I think we all agreed we had certain goals as a country

and we had to get there but we could respect we're going to get there in different ways we're going to take

different paths and I think we've lost that and I think that's where we need to go again John your perspective on all

this I hard hard to disagree with any of that um yes so I'm just realizing So

Reagan was the president when you went to Washington right um he he had already

retired at that point oh he had okay so when I went no actually he was um

because he won an 80 and in 84 so yeah Reagan was was the president and I I

think the country was feeling pretty good about itself at that point in time whether you agreed with him or not

because he he he had a message of

America as a proud successful honorable place and whether you agreed with his

politics or not I think he unified people and then on the other side tip

O'neal He was a proud American he just thought there was a different way to get to where we wanted to go and I and John

I I totally agree with you and agreeing with me because that's what I would typically do it didn't really matter

what John thought it mattered what I thought and if he agreed with me I felt

even better about myself but no no John John was always a um a guiding life for

me as well so we played off each other in fact they even called us Frick and Frack Frick and Frack yeah I think I was

Frick now we're we're we're we're uh we're talking about the importance of coming together all that kind of stuff

so I go back to my swag folks hopefully Jeff can you see it pretty well I can

see it really well the corporate the corporate colors call it blue and red speaking of

politics but right but there's a reason for this that has nothing to do with politics the blue is Penn State blue

because Jeff is a proud graduate and I don't think I said that when I introduced you

of proud State University the nitty Lions uh of State College Pennsylvania I

on the other hand am a very proud graduate I think I don't know if you can see my helmet up there in the background

oh yeah we can see the University of Southern California uh and that's our red which is kind of a deeper red more

of a cardinal so we've Incorporated our col our respective College colors into our swag and if that ain't Reaching

Across the aisle Mr bomb I don't I don't know what is no so um so uh I was

thinking of Reagan though I I yes the great communicator is the nickname but

you remember his tagline mourning in America right always looking for The

Shining City on the hill right EXA that was his vision of a great country right

and if you think about the environment in which he was driving those

messages through as the 80s went on we were increasingly winning the Cold War

which had weighed us down mentally at minimum since the end of World War II right I

mean 40 years at that point and we were winning right and so he had he just had

a very strong patriotic um

approachable way of thinking about tomorrow's always you know America is

the best but her best days are ahead of her and every day is a new morning in

America very powerful you think about the way in which he delivered those messages right a great yes he had been

an actor I get it um but the way he delivered those speeches you know the

the little twinkle in the eye lots of jokes um he was famous you can Google

Ronald Reagan jokes and see an endless supply of them and they're actually

pretty funny they're a little corny but they're but they're funny right he was enjoying himself he believed in us he

believed in all of us does doesn't mean everybody loved him right but the messaging was very powerful so so you

translate that to the environment of today right so I mean I could go on and

on about this but but let's let's take a step back let's talk about it um when I

think of Donald Trump and marketing Communications

messaging things like that I think of three things I've written down here one is and this may sound like a dig it's

not he's never met a camera he didn't like right I think that's a positive for

a political candidate you better be comfortable with the red light on right now he has the benefit a fairly unique

benefit of having been a known quantity in the United States for a long long

time I can't think of any other candidate who before they ran for the

presidency the first time had been a known quantity for at that point what 30 40 years at that point

right so and so he's just a very familiar face everyone knows who he is

um and that's the worst thing that a political candidate could suffer from is not enough people know who you are right

people know who he is they know what he stands for I I I I assign that as a

strength to him right um and and a lot of that is because of time but a lot of

that is because of the way he's he's um comported himself over time he's just just been a very visible person right I

think that's a strength the second strength I would assign to him and this is going to maybe sound a

little a little not silly but very very tactical his posture in interviews I

think is so interesting I'm always noticing it he and I'm literally trying

to do it now as I'm saying it right he sits on the on the edge of the seat or

the chair that is facing the interviewer and he leans forward a little bit and he

has his hands clasped in front of him he's extremely comfortable um and and it

and it makes the statement that he is ready for the interview he's ready to go he's leaning forward he's just he's all

in and I I and it makes him look very strong um and so I I think that I've

never seen a candidate a presidential candidate or a politician do that he is a watch the way he sits next time you

see him in a one-on-one interview uh and then the third thing is and this is um I

think a compliment both to him but also to his C his um campaign operation in

general the messaging is very clear right brand positioning every company

out there whether your GM or Joe's Taco Stand what do you stand for what is your

brand promise right he stands for um you know make America great again that's

that's that's the that's the tagline it's the kernel of the of the brand positioning it's very very clear and

they they meaning the campaign they Hammer that message over and over and

over again and there is a lesson there whether you like the message or not I'm not saying I like it or I don't like it

I'm just saying the message is clear they hammer it over and over and over again and every company should be

heeding that warning um so those are three things I see is strengths of his

now should I talk about weaknesses of his or do you want to do you want to comment first on my comments Jeff yeah

well let me comment first on your comments and take a few tangents here and there I Ag and then if you do that

I'm going to comment on your comments on my comments well I think we'll have our

moderator turn off the mic um hey anyway I I completely agree

with your comment regarding this your wi he talks I mean he is leaning ahead he's

on the edge of his seat and he's looking into the eyes of the interviewer I think

that's a very powerful message that he sends secondly there's never any

question about what he's saying he comes back to the same three or point three or four points he begins with and that's a

very powerful way of delivering a message at the same time no one would

disagree that his points are very polarizing there are people on his side

of the fence who think that's showing America's strength and that when he says make America great again he's assuming

that we weren't great from the beginning and I think that if you if you take a look at things how many of you out there

would would would think that hey no matter what was happening in the country I I've always thought that America is

the greatest place is the greatest place for democracy and you know what we're all IM imigrants except for a few people

we all came from different places it's just and even Donald's wives came from

different countries um he doesn't really point that out and it seems that he has

a very different view of people coming from the north and Canada or from Europe

versus from Central America so that's a very different Viewpoint and from Muslim

countries um so I I think all that is very true he's very effective um the

other thing that I would say about the way Donald Trump responds to questions

is that if he's lost on a question or he doesn't know the answer he'll make one

up and that's that's where these alternative facts that we talked about

way back come into play now that's in contrast to KLA Harris if she's asked

something that may be comfortable or may put her in a bad spot she'll evade that

she will switch the subject or whatever else so you know when she'd be asked

will you will you continue President Biden's policies she never answers that

question she talks about the successes they've had but she never says yes she

never says no so people may view that as being I don't know weak or not decisive

and so you have very different um very different points of view on both

candidates at the same time if it's something she's passionate about like women's rights the rights to control

their own bodies she'll deliver that very directly and she'll deliver it with

a lot of heart so I think they're very different candidates very different

people very different strategies and you know where Trump's always kind of on the

attack KL is always trying to build this idea of coming together and again it works

for both people yeah you know on KLA I I I I want to uh I'd like to talk uh about what I

see as her communication strengths but I'm gonna I'm gonna start with her weaknesses because you just identified

one um when she did the town hall with Anderson Cooper week or two

ago he was not letting her off the hook so you think about that town hall if you

if uh you all remember that it was in what Allentown I think it was in Allentown

Pennsylvania swing state obviously by the way Jeff we talked about Penn State but is a proud native Pennsylvania uh I

think that was in Allentown but um no in my part of Pennsylvania is Pittsburgh so you just so you know Western

Pennsylvania is much different than eastern Pennsylvania we have very little in common but I am pnsy the way you've

identified it not to go down the rabbit hole of of the ins and outs of Pennsylvania but you've you've described

it as Philadelphia is a Northeastern City and Pittsburgh's essentially a Midwestern city correct that that

accurate yeah I think a pittsburger has much more in common with someone from Ohio or the West Virginia Panhandle than

they do with people in Philadelphia or DC or New York so and took that as a

position of strength you know we're we're the common the common person a great place a great place to

grow up we the comet person from The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania right correct great Commonwealth but Allentown

I associate that with being more Pittsburgh like is that is that not right well I think it is more Pittsburgh

like in terms of being well actually Bethlehem is probably more Pittsburgh like but Allentown is a very um

workingclass City yeah the famous Billy Joel song of course yes and and just for

people who like useless trivia and I'm a font of useless trivia Billy Joel was actually writing writing about levit

toown New York but he thought that Allentown would be more recognizable to

people so that's why he did that are you kidding me levitown New York that is the town where the first postor War II

speaking of worthless factoids the very first first post World War II kind of

um modernized Housing Development was built exactly right and then it all

started moving West right New York that's very I did not realize that yeah

yeah but but so so KLA is in that town hall they're in Allentown Anderson Cooper's on stage with her and by the

way I believe that Trump had been invited to participate in that town hall

that had deed and he declined so she's up there by herself meaning she had the audience to herself she has the stage to

herself but I think to his great credit Anderson Cooper uh W had clearly decided that he

was there to be more than a Master of Ceremonies he was there to be a journalist and in between when she was

answering questions from people in the audience he was asking her questions not all of which were easy I mean he was not

letting her off the hook and so so I agree with you that if she's

knowledgeable passionate about something she can be very effective but there were some questions

that he asked her that she clearly wasn't comfortable with for whatever reason right might have been a policy

reason whatever but um and she was evading it and hey Jeff and I have both

you know we've we've represented CEOs and and sometimes it is better to just

not answer the question but what you really don't want to do is get into

so-called word salad right where she was just going on and on and on to the point

where you're like okay we get that you're not going to answer the question but just stop right and and and you

could almost see in her face her own realization that she's kind of on a

tangent and needs to bring it back yeah so I you know now why is that um

you know the the lights are bright on stage the pressure's on I get but it

also may be just pure lack of experience in handling things like that right um so

I think that is something she needs to work on I also think she needs and again it sounds kind of odd but she also needs

to work on her posture for interviews her very first interview she did with Tim Walls who was already way taller

than her um she was slouching it was the one they did with Dana Bash from CNN she

was slouching in her seat or at least that's the way it looked and she looked almost like you know he was her

dad I mean it was not a good look for someone running for the presidency of the United States it made her look small

in comparison and it and it served to minimize the grav gravitas if you will

of some of her answers but again I assign these things to lack of experience I mean yeah she's been a

senator from you know the most popul state in the Union she's been vice president it's not like she's never done

an interview before but I do think she needs to work on uh the way she handles them now a lot

of people have said uh on the on the right of Center side have said s ever since she got the nomination

back in what July why isn't she doing interviews why isn't she doing

interviews the reason I have to assume she wasn't was because they had determined that she wasn't ready you

don't want to throw somebody out there before they're ready they have to be ready to go and I so I think they I'm

going to assume they made the right call in holding off on that but if she was

finally to that point where she was ready and she's sitting down with CNN you would think that she would

have either been guided to or do it herself sit up straight

you know be a little bit more trump-like in the sense that you're leaning forward have your hands on the table and just

look more into it right now yeah these are these are critiques that I'm offering of her communication style I

can also offer and I'd like to offer strengths that I see from her should

should I just go right into that go you're on a rooll go ahead am I on a rooll a I'm on a roll

baby and and I'd also like to identify a couple of issues that I see from Trump with his Communications style so I think

kamla and this kind of goes along with what you were saying Jeff I mean she's just very approachable right she she

smiles a lot which I think is great and I loved in the Democratic Convention

when they were talking about let's get some of the joy back in American life exactly that was so great you know again

morning in America the glass is half full not not half empty what a what an uplifting message right and um and her

her sense of empathy really comes through in that same town hall in

Allentown a woman asked a question from the audience and I can't remember what the question was exactly but she

mentioned that her husband had just passed away um and I don't know if it

was a healthcare related question or what but and the very first thing she said before she answered the question

was I'm sorry for your loss and she said it in a very believable way that you

really sense that she was truly sorry for This Woman's loss can you imagine

Trump saying that I cannot even if he said it it would almost sound weird

right but but then anyway the the town hall ends and the camera is still on the

stage she made a beline to that woman in the audience and they proceeded to

engage in a conversation that lasted several minutes and their faces were no more than this far apart and you could

just tell unless KLA Harris is a much better actor than you know than I think

she can be you can just tell they were having a real true heart-to-heart conversation likely About This Woman's

husband maybe some of the challenges that that family has faced as a result and you really got the impression that

this woman cared it's it's coming through in her speeches in her rallies

in her one-on ones um I give her um a lot of credit for that I also think

she's become much much better at telling her personal story remember I was saying

you know Trump everyone knows who he is everyone knows his story everyone feels like they know him which is a generally

a good thing for a politician comma Harris has had a lot of catching up to do like to educate people

about her story and every chance she gets she talks about I'm I came from a middle class household um where my mom

basically raised my sister and I and um I and I've been a prosecutor right and

so I have so I just have empathy for people struggling right and I give her

quite a bit of credit for that and then speaking of taglines you know Ming in America make America great again all of

these things I'm going to quiz you what is kamla's tagline let's see if it's

breaking through or not it's she says it every time moving forward right she talks about moving

forward A New Path forward I think I think that's right A New Path forward which

encapsulates you know let's move forward right and so I do think that she and the

campaign have come a long way they've had a lot of catching up to do in a fairly short period of time um but

[Music] um anyway I I I I give her a lot of credit but she's had a lot of learning

to do pretty pretty quickly let me just finish out finish off my role um with a

critique of trump um because so far I've focused mainly on his positives his biggest negative to me from a

Communications and marketing standpoint is his inability to stay on

message uh you know so make America great again America first that's

consistent but he goes on stage and the next thing you know he's talking about

stuff that makes no sense and that has nothing to do with the brand positioning

of his candidacy right and it's got to drive his staff crazy so so for those of

you listening out there I mentioned Jeff and I have you know been in many a situation where we have a CEO we're

working with prepare them for an interview or what have you um and it you know you just hope you hope when the red

light goes on uh that they're able to stay on message right so I can only

imagine his sta saying oh my God please come back come back come back right um

and so and and the second issue that I see with him is when he does go go on

those crazy tangents it's not word salad like comma it's it veers into personal

attacks exactly way way too often and the whole thing then becomes a distraction and so you know he

does the rally he gets off stage you go on the internet and the headlines are all about Trump talked about you know

was putting down this race or this group or or was talking about you know

Hannibal Lecter or just this crazy stuff right so it's it's interesting because like I

said they've got this kernel that works for them right it got him elected in

2016 it must have worked to a certain degree make America great again America first um but if he is he's almost like

his clearly probably more than any other candidate any of us have ever seen he's both the biggest strength and the

biggest weakness of the campaign right because he's just so volatile you never know what he's going to do but he has

these amazing strengths as well what do you what do you think I I I agree I agree with that

completely um and one thing that I I say a lot and I don't know who said it

originally is that you know if you take a look at a car you're in a car driving a car what's bigger the uh windshield or

the rear viiew mirror and I think if I had to

characterize the campaigns I think KL is looking much more through the windshield

where Donald is looking much more through the rearview mirror and I I think that's a problem that he has um

but he still appeals to that base of Voters which may be 20 25% who are

acolytes there are people who would never leave him who agree with everything he says despite what he says

um so that's an incredible strong base that he can always call on and and

they're not going to stray they're not gonna support kamla um the other thing

and I agree with this with John is it would be hard to find a Statesman in

any country who belittles people and I think that's something that um Donald's

practiced throughout his career um and that comes down to way back when he made

fun of of a reporter who obviously had some sort of mental disability made fun

of the way he talked um I think that just little things are unprecedent likee

um you you know C dogs and cats and pets they're eating them um that's not

something a a Statesman says if you take a look at Kamala as opposed to Joe Biden

that's a real switch up in the way that Trump to approach the C his candidacy

and going after kamla one of kamla's issues is she's being associated with

every policy that Joe Biden put out there and if you think about the vice

presidency itself they typically don't make the policies they support the policies it's like joining an army or

joining the military you can have whatever Viewpoint you want but when the general says okay we're going to war

this is the way we're going to attack the enemy you don't say well I don't really agree with that you say you know

what sir I'm there I'm going to do that and that's really um the role of the

vice president as well as presiding over the Senate casting important votes there so I think her ability to differentiate

herself and avoiding being hung exactly exactly and that's what they've tried to

do um and and it's hey if I were in that position I'd do it too because what else

do they have to criticize her on um a couple of points that someone very very

smart who's associated with this podcast uh brought up before we we took to the

air is that if you look at kamla and here's where a huge difference is you

know Trump was going against someone who's you know older um and he tried to

use that to his Advantage comma is younger than Trump and actually at a

normal age for being a chief of state in fact you know based on her age she could

be his daughter uh but even more importantly and as this very smart

person told us that kamla who was born in

1964 yeah is actually older than her right to vote which was um enacted by

Congress in 1965 that's that's an incredible thing to to to acknowledge and to think of and

uh and you think of where she's coming from um so I think that's a huge thing

to her advantage um and she has to she has to really have that point sink in

you know as we move into these last days of the campaign um something she said

early on was terrific which is she's a prosecutor she's prosecuted people and

um and Trump and whether you agree with this or not I mean this is very um

personal opinion but he's been convicted of 32 felonies he's a felon in lots of

States felons don't have the right to vote and but they do have the right to become president so what does that say

to the rest of the world and I think she needs to zero in on that that she could

talk about the fact that he he basically launched an Insurrection on January 6th

um contesting the election and setting this horde of people who wanted to

overturn it into the capital even even threatening his own vice president who

in the end said you know what the Constitution everything that I stand for

says that Joe Biden was lawfully elected president and it's my hence the Hang

hence my Hang Mike Pence comment hopefully everybody got that correct they had a noose outside you know we

want want Pence kind of chasing him through the capital now there was stuff

going on there it was crazy they broke into the speaker office all this stuff and and it was defended u in in essence

by by Donald Trump um although you know of course he's held that he's not responsible for that um so you know this

conflicting view of events and you know is Trump an insurrectionist well you

know there are a lot of people who say yes to that and there are a lot of people who say no so we've got all these

conflicting views of the world views of the US views of each other and if we

could just get back to civility I think that's what people on on either side or at least sane people on either side

would say we need to get back to a point where we can have an honest discourse

between people on both sides we could have friendships we don't break up families and I think we're just so

divided at that point I think that's what's happening it it is uh that's exactly

what's happened there's no question about it it's very upsetting um it uh

you have to well I I I I teach uh I

teach um uh College on as my side gig I'm an

Adjunct professor at University of North Texas just north of Dallas here and I've

talked to my students about it here and there not a lot but you know and and talking to uh our kids and things like

that and the this environment especially for young people is a total turnoff for

even getting involved in the political process at all exactly because that's because this era we've been in for a few

years now that's all they know that's all they know they don't know the tip O'Neal Ronald Reagan thing that you

talked about right they don't know that there was once a time not that long ago when it wasn't this ugly right and so

you know it makes me worry about the future you know are people going to vote and and are they going to be engaged and

all that kind of stuff so you know it's interesting you raised the January 6th thing kamla did I wish I had had a

chance to see it I did not she made a speech uh last night from the same spot

literally the same spot on which Donald Trump was standing when that famous

speech occurred and then the Insurrection occurred down the street at the White House um so clearly she's

focusing on that trying to remind people of that but the convicted felon thing you brought up I haven't heard her talk

a lot about that lately and I that's interesting to me that I I wonder if it's

because they've just decided that other messages are working better maybe they

think the Felon thing has kind of run its course in the minds of people who

could go either way I I don't know um the other thing that and you and I were talking about this earlier Jeff that is

very interesting to me is this is the third time Trump has run for president but it's the

it's the first time that I can recall at least that people are pointing

out uh the effects that tariffs could have on the American Consumer and

exactly negative effects I don't remember people on the left or people in

the center doing that before right so you know intentionality which we we

talked about earlier right I believe everything that's said by both candidates is done very very much on

purpose um I believe that when people like Mark hban get up and say these tariffs are going to be bad for the

American Consumer I don't think I don't believe he's doing that in a vacuum I

believe he's being encouraged um by the left to do that

um but it's just interesting that if it is such a problem why wasn't it brought up before right right um think he ever

wanted to put them in on such a wide scale I mean he he did them against China he did against Russia yeah that's

true this would have a big impact on everybody's purse strings yeah and I don't know what to think of it as a

consumer I don't know what to think of it if he does if he wins and he does these tariffs in the way that he's

talking about doing them will that really be bad for the American Consumer I have no

clue because my brain is just too full at this

point I you know I'd like to think I'm a you know a fairly well-educated sane

normal person but I don't know what to think I'm not an economist I haven't taken the time I admit to dive into this

policy I'm not sure quite what to make of it right yeah well if I were advising

Harris I think one of the things I would make a centerpiece of my messaging is that not a single Cabinet member of

Trump's supports him not as former vice president his chief of staff a fourstar general

talked about how he's not comfortable with Trump and how Trump you know really

relished his relationship with um let's say dictators you know like Vladimir

Putin like Kim Jong muan um and then finally he said that Trump actually said

some things in support of Hitler's policies with regard to how the generals

followed him without question well anybody who invokes the name of Hitler

um I don't think's in in step with most Americans I I I mean somehow it gets

lost the the terrible things that Hitler oversaw that this boggled

imagination um so and then and then finally you know in this what Trump has

called a love Fest in Madison Square Garden oh we haven't talked about that yet yeah it was opened by a comedian who

described Puerto Rico as a floating pile of garbage in the ocean um you know that

disenfranchises a very very big portion of the electorate and he went on to

criticize African-Americans Muslims and Jews and um you know that that can't

really be tolerated in an event that was basically organized by President Trump

so I think you got to seize upon all those things um especially coming into this last few

days of the election process um but again you know there was a point where

Trump said he could go into Time Square shoot someone in the head and his

numbers would go up the next day um so I mean these are all things that actually

happened which um which are incredible to me and there's plenty of other things

but but I really think I think people have selective Asia um you know all the good things

there were good things that happened during his presidency but there were a lot of awful things that happen as well

and I think they're bent to think of the good and just kind of block out the

awful which I have to hand it to Donald Trump he's proven to be probably the

most resilient politician in our history and he done that by by being a a

non-politician and U you gota you gotta hand it to him for that and that's a very effective

strategy he he was a known quantity before he became a politician and especially in 2016 he would talk a lot

about oh my God I can't believe I'm a politician now right um harder harder to say that with a straight face when it's

the third time you've run and you are a former president right um but I it's

interesting you know you talked about um uh the former Chief of Staff and the

things that he was saying the concerning things that he was sharing about his views of Trump's character to be in

office again I remember one point in that town hall with Anderson Cooper that we talked about a few minutes ago where

k at one point said hey don't take it from me don't take it from me take it from him right and it and it shows you

know what it was a reminder to me of is the value of earned media right absolutely I mean you know you know you

got paid media owned media are paid owned and earned right and and these are

among our services that we offer and these are among the things that I talked to my students about in these marketing

and Communications classes and and the thing that separates earned media from

the others is because it's a third party endorsement you know the company can talk all day long about how great it is

or how great its new shoe is or whatever but if you can get somebody else to say that it's way way more powerful right

and abely absolutely so it was very clear in that town hall that the Harris

campaign had realized the power of what Kelly had said and she kept going back

to it over and over and over again I'm sure very intentionally I'm sure that

they done some quick research to see how that would play right and believe me

when you see a politician going back to a certain message it's very much for a reason because they've done the research

right um anyway um I've got another one for you I'm I'm anxiously awaiting are are

you ready are you ready think so okay so um I I've done a little bit of research

myself I'm a research-based person Jeff it's all about the research all about the data and and just so you know I'm

completely ignorant so I look up to your ability to research you are not data

[Music] driven so I'm very data driven if you know me I'm

very data driven but you are Mr Data Mr Data Dr Data Dr dat data Dr Data so um I

I can't have come to not a worthless factoid but a realization that and this

is a this is a compliment to Trump um in a way but every 30 years I think there's

a new thing that change it that has

changed the way that candidates run or the way they appeal in Mass to audiences

so think about the 60s the 1960 election um neither you nor I were

around right nor was kamla um 1960 JFK versus Nixon right

what was the big thing then that really changed it was the debate right exactly

and there's sweaty lip there's the sweaty lip there's JFK Mr cover boy Mr

Hansen got he's got the hair got the present got the smile he's got the present and there's Nixon with the

sweaty lip and the uh the the circles under the eyes and the five o'clock

shadow and it really you know harmed him

right and think about the the chops that Nixon and JFK both brought to those

stages because I think they did more than one debate I think um Nixon had been vice president for eight years

under Eisenhower um Kennedy and Nixon before that had been a congressman for I want

to say six years I think they were both elected to congress in the same year I think it was

46 um uh so Nixon had tons of experience

was an attorney and all this kind of stuff Kennedy um while he had been elected to congress

in the same year had been if you will just a congressman for 14 years as

opposed to VP right and uh but you know Optics are tough to get

Beyond and the Optics of of those debates for Nixon were very bad so think about that that's when debating took

over because that was when television was taking over correct right then you get to the 90s okay I looked it up this

morning and I had some fun with this what was the thing that

really knocked the Elder Bush out of the 92 election remember 92 right you got

Clinton you got the Elder Bush and you got Ross perau um did we mention perau

up front when we talked about we did we did so there they are and it was a

debate huh read my lips no new taxes no new

taxes well that was 88 that helped him that helped the Elder bush get elected right but it also helped him lose later

on oh right because then he had to go back on it and then he was you know on his on on his rear foot if you will in

the re-election campaign but that was a debate the three of them but it was like a town hall style debate right and they

were in engaging with the audience allaha Kamala at the CNN thing a couple

of weeks ago and that was the night when Bush looked at his

watch right like when is this damn thing gonna end I I need to go watch whatever

he was gonna watch on TV right or I just need to get the hell out of here right

and um he did it twice I I looked at the video this morning I I knew that he had

done it once I didn't know he did it twice um but there was a question from a a woman in the audience that night about

to describe for us to what extent if any a bad economy because there there

was a recession going on at that point right right I don't know if it was a recession by definition but the economy

was struggling and the question to Bush was to what extent is a recession or a bad

economy to what extent does it have an effect on you and your family well the answer in truth is is zero no effect

because this is a very wealthy man who had come from a very wealthy family but he really struggled he kept asking her

to repeat the question like he didn't really get it and then he struggled to answer the question and then his turn is

up he goes back to his chair and he looks at his watch right Clinton then Clinton

then who should have been called the Great Communicator in some ways in terms of

incredible communic lots of baggage don't get me wrong but in terms of his

communication skills he takes the queue walks directly

up to the woman um and uh and they're just a few feet apart and he tells her

very in very personalized terms here's what happens in my home state when there's an economic problem if this

company has layoffs there's a good chance I know the people who are being laid off right if this happens I know

those people I feel it you know the whole Clinton I feel your pain thing you didn't say that out loud in that answer

but he might as well have and it was just all about empathy and people wanted

to see that and so my point is in the 60s it was television's here it's all

about a debate where you're just standing there the 90s uh now you have it's still a debate

but it's really more of a town hall okay um much more one-on-one with the

audience moving around the stage right well what came next 30 Years Later Here Comes

Trump with the rallies right and the rally has really changed politics now

right what has com what has kamla relied upon for her Main Events rallies right

and so and that all started with Trump right and um so it's there's yet you

know every 30 years or so this is my theory right there's some new thing that kind of Tak takes over as the new

communications platform for these candidates and when that happens you better be good at that right and KLA I

think has become pretty good walls is very good in those rallies walls is very good Trump is master of those right um

so there's pros and cons what's going to be the next communications platform 30 years from now who knows but um you you

better be good at it or it's not going to last long yeah and I I agree with kamla's decision

to do that rally in front of the White House the same way same place that Trump

did his speech brilliant brilliant very very powerful image that that said uh

unfortunately Joe Biden made comments separately that same

night you know Puerto Rico and what that person said kind of attributed um

everything not to the comedian but to Trump's supporters and they had to walk back that statement so you know the good

PR that comma was going to get from that speech was offset by the bad PR that um

President Biden drew that is such a great point right what a unique situation where you have to you're the

you're the you're the standing vice president you have to worry about what the president the standing president is

going to say and and it and it just shows that it's such a fine line for her and I've heard that she had a very

negative reaction to what he said and they probably reeled him reel him back you know I I just you wonder if he's

gonna do any more interviews between now and election day I doubt it I keep him

as the Republicans like to say in the basement in Delaware do your thing just don't go

near a microphone yeah maybe Rob with Beach he goes back to ROV Beach because it's the shoulder season there's you

know it's nicer the shoulder season shoulder season what does that mean well

summer is the that's the hot tourist season oh so you get on your Springtime

and the Autumn are the shoulder Seasons they're on either side of the summer and

the weather's still pretty good and you can enjoy the the town I see what he

should be doing versus this this is a new term for me so I I'm a West Coast

guy and we don't really have seasons right we we we kind of do we kind of do but every

day is Sunday out there right right not Sunday but day of sun right right uh

except for June except for June except for June sep June June Gloom which is a term that's

been in Southern California ever but then a new one I heard this year was May gray never heard it before lived in

Southern California 37 the first 37 years of my life never heard that term May gray but June

June June Gloom is is a real thing if you are within five to 10 miles of the

beach in June it's gonna be gloomy it just isely now if you want to go Inland

okay fine but you're not at the beach at that point hey hey everyone John and I have been talking for a while our

producer our producer has interrupted us to suggest that we should stop talking about the weather right and and and move

to the close of our podcast and we are taking her Direction you all can't see

the look on her face that we can see on our screens but are who who was the old

who was the who was the uh Regis and Kathy Lee

who was the producer that they always Melman Melman Gman Melman has suggested

to us that that we are Jumping the Shark because we're talking about the weather

um and it's time to close this SU to be award-winning podcast so Jeff over to

you well I hope you enjoyed today's discussion it's very new for John and I to be doing this um but we think that

hey you know pretty face is only get you so far that we had to go out there and and Spotlight our intellectual capital I

hope we've done that or I hope we've at least gotten you thinking about the election coming up um one important

thing is go to our website um there's a uh a a URL there actually email address

where you can send your comments ask us anything we'll get back to you um if you have any comments on the name of the

podcast if you have any comments on the subject matter we'd love to read it and

we will get back to you and uh hey I I've appreciated um your attention today

I can't see out there but I hopefully hopefully you're out there um and uh I appreciate John taking the time with me

John what do you have to say yeah I I've had a ball I mean up until Melman uh you

know uh pulled the rip cord here um we could have we could have gone on for

another couple of hours um but yeah and but to that point Jeff um your questions

yes we we do very much encourage you to submit them we will make a point in

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regularly as we can we will answer them uh on another podcast we will continue

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please yes go to our website um and submit questions there it's tailor made it's easy uh Jeff and I couldn't figure

it out but the rest of you can we're sure and uh you know these things are

supposed to be both entertaining and informative we hope we've checked both both boxes here um we do like each other

very much except when Penn State plays SC which happened about a month ago and

Jeff won game Penn State won the game and Jeff

got the good guy award in the immediate aftermath of that

disaster um by not make but by not making fun of me um uh I was down in the

dumps um but but uh anyway uh we do um

we do enjoy each other's company we're both colleagues and friends we believe very deeply in the services that we

provide to you to the market um let us know if we can be of help and much more

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especially the first time out and I understood that feedback but we just decided you know what there's no topic

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promise as we continue to post new content well hey uh I'm sure we've alien ated some of you that was not the intent

we tried to be as balanced as we could be but hey deepest thanks for joining us

today we love you and we hope that we can work with each one of you uh going

forward and I hope we uh we gain we gave you some insights you might not have thought of or gave you some uh fodder

for conversation um but uh hey we're here um you can go to our website but we

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