[Music] Well, hello everyone and welcome not

only to the On the Offense podcast, but welcome to the 10th episode of On the

Offense. We have made it to double digits. I am John Clendenning. I am your

co-host along with my co-host. Hey, I'm Jeff Bond and I'm happy to be here today

on sweet number 10. I'm not sure why 10 is so sweet, but you know, we love those big round numbers. We We've made it this

far, so stick with us and we'll make it worth your while. Exactly. Exactly. We

are recording this on and are you ready for this? National Burrito Day. National

Burri. So, Jeff, let me be the first to wish you because I'm sure a lot of other

people are going to rush to do this. Oh, yeah. to wish you a happy National Burrito Day. For those of you who are

regular listeners to this uh steamed broadcast, you know that I like to have

props. So, my prop for today is not a burrito, but it is a tortilla. Okay, it

is a tortilla. I've got those two. It is a tortilla. And I uh would like to just

announce the fact that I once stood in the rain outside of the Today's Show

window. I was paid to do this. Otherwise, I would like to think I wouldn't have done it. For National

Tortilla Day, I had a hat, a straw hat on my head upon which laid

275 tortillas. Okay, now that can be a

little heavy until they get wet. And this thing was sinking and sinking and

sinking into my head. In the meantime, I got on live television with Katie

Kurrick, who came outside to see what was happening with this poor young lad

with these uh doggy tortillas uh on his

head. And she actually uh interviewed me and I got a great picture from a

colleague of mine who was with me. And to this day, and I've seen the picture,

to this day, I continue to chase it down because it needs to be framed on my wall. It's lost. I continue to look

forward. I will uh continue to do so like a longlost love for the rest of my

days. The picture of me and Katie Kurrick outside of the Today Show window

with 275 damp tortillas on my head. So, I I think no better story to tell on

than um uh than that on National Burrito Day. Are you going to have a burrito

today to celebrate? Um I'm thinking about it. I do have burrito I mean flour

tortillas behind me. I've got some reffried beans. I got some cheese. No meat to put in it, but um I

could have a vegetarian burrito. Have a vegetarian burrito. After National Burrito Day, we

should now move to offering our congratulations to the newly crowned

national champions in basketball, except for one little minor fact, which is that

we are recording this two days before the final. And so, we don't know who the

champion is. So, what we're going to do now is we're going to make our calls for who's going to win it all on Monday,

next Monday night. when this comes out, probably maybe the day after that, we'll either look really smart or really not

smart. So, I'll start. I mean, for me, it's all about Duke. I think I think

they're going to win going away. They play Houston on Saturday. If you think about it, final four is in San Antonio,

University of Houston, and they've got a kind of sort of homecourt advantage. Be real easy for their fans to travel to

San Antonio. But, I don't think that's going to bother Duke much. I think they'll beat him. I have no idea who's

going to win between what is it? Florida and Auburn. Um but I think it's uh it's

Duke all day long. Cooper flag is a man among boys on the court. What what what

do you what are your thoughts, Jeff? I'm kind of split. I'm kind of split.

I'll tell you why. Um like I I think we were talking earlier um about family.

I've got family in Chapel Hill, um, very adjacent to, um, to Duke, which is in

Durham. Um, and, uh, and I have a really good friend who went to Duke. Um, so

there's part of me that thinks along those lines, but my mother-in-law and

other family members are from Auburn, Alabama. And I think in this case, just

I'll check my brain at the side and I'll use my art for this one and I'll go with

Auburn. You know what? You got to support the mother-in-law, right? I've got to support the mother-in-law. She

certainly has been supportive of me. So, right. I mean, absolutely. Go War Eagle.

Go War Eagle, baby. My son uh is uh in Tuscaloosa on the other side of that

civil war. But uh but Auburn is a fine school and they've got a great program and boy, an Auburn Duke final would be

really entertaining. Really? I I think it would be. I think it would be. I'm hopeful that that's what we'll get. But

we'll see. And And by the way, I'm not necessarily rooting for Duke. I just think they're going to win, right? I

don't really care who wins. Yeah. I I truly don't have a dog in the hunt, but um but I think if I had to choose just

from the heart, not from the mind, so that means I'm at a disadvantage, I

would I would go with armor. Let's move into the um topic at hand here, which is

uh and just to get us going, Jeff published a great article on LinkedIn uh

earlier this week and on Facebook, too, I believe. And um Mhm. I recommend it

for really good reading to anyone who is concerned about where we stand in the

current climate of this country. The setting was a Texas Rangers baseball game. We are now into baseball season.

We're going to talk about our World Series picks at the end here and the near perfection of the environment that

you were in that day and then kind of comparing that to where we are now. But why don't you why don't you describe

this article as a way to kind of get us going into this discussion? Yeah. Yeah.

And and you know what, John, the National Burrito thing isn't a bad um segue into this because one of the new

items at the ballpark this year is the burrito boomstick.

Is a really foot and a halflong burrito.

um that two to three people could probably eat at the Rangers at at the

Rangers Ballpark. Wow. So, you know, that's that's quite a quite a thought.

Quite a sight. That is a size burrito. That is a that is a burrito. Now,

unfortunately, I guess fortunately, if you're a fan, there's a roof on the stadium now, but I'm going to hearken

back to the old Ranger Stadium, which I don't think of as old. You know, it was really a great stadium. It was the the

August issue of the extreme heat is an issue. But this this Sunday in August,

and this was maybe five years ago, I was with my son Matt and uh we got there and

we really didn't go to many games on a Sunday during the daytime. They didn't schedule that many just because of the

heat. Yeah. But we entered the ballpark and it was just an ideal day aside from

the the extreme sun. Our tickets were great. There were box seats. Um you

could go watch batting practice. They're right below you. The sun was out. The

grass was freshly mowed. You know, the smell of the lawn. It It was great. It

was great. I had my popcorn. Matt had a soda. I had a beer. We sat down and it

was just ideal and over the loudspeaker they were playing Saturday in the park

and um it was just the place that you wanted to be. You could shut out the

rest of the world being there and as a as a young guy I was a baseball fanatic

and and so is my son Matt. And so there couldn't have been a better place to be and we enjoyed it so much. Um but I I

was sitting there thinking and and all this stuff that we're talking about really could trace itself back to to

then maybe a little bit earlier than um you know the world was s such a divided place even then. And the one

place to get away at least in my mind was at a ball game. Um, but but I couldn't help but think, you know, we're

trying to separate ourselves from this world where everything's far left and far right and just kind of get back to

the middle. You know, when it comes to political issues, we judge elections by

these issues that are on the far left and the far right. Well, what about all the stuff that impacts us every day? you

know, the economy, um, safety, security, all those different things that impact

us on a regular basis versus the fringe issues we end up voting on, which I

don't think that's where most of us are at. And I think if you did polling, you'd find out that's the case. And I

respect our electoral system, and that's the decision folks have made. But I really think as a

society, both in general and politically, we'd be better served if we

operated in the middle. I I can remember a Thanksgiving meal we had a few years ago where my brother-in-law and his wife

were there and their views were very conservative, at odds with my wife and

me and my my kids. And we ended up having like a debate at the table where

everybody got up and left except for Lor's brother and I. Oh gosh. And we went back and forth. Food fight. And we

didn't have a food fight. Uh, you know, I didn't really want to mess up my my mother-in-law's house, but you know, you

think about that. That's crazy. That's crazy. And so that when I was writing this piece, and if you read it, it it

does get a little bit political. I couldn't help it. Um, but I think on the

larger scale just talking about how do we move from the extremes into this

area, we operate in black and white. How do we get gray again? You know, can we get gray again? Gray is not my favorite

color, but in terms of our dialogue as people, as as news consumers, how do we

pull ourselves together? the article was very well written, number one, but number two, like the I just loved the

premise when you first brought up the idea to me and uh I I think it's the

kind of thing that people need to hear. So, the question I would pose then is

how can we as marketers and communicators overcome these challenges, overcome the

challenges of this polarized society in which we live? How can we I think you

said something about consuming content, right? And so the way I think about it

is how is how can marketers and communicators I suppose both for our own

sake but also for the sake of the organizations that we represent. How can what are some things

we can do in terms of the way we yes consume content and the way we create content to

somehow bring a uh you know a sense of the middle back right because it is lost

right so some here are some suggestions in terms of I'll start with consuming

content news articles when you consume media whenever ever one of my kids um

says, "Well, did you see this article?" First thing I always say is, "What's the source? What was the source?" Right.

Right. Essentially, what I'm asking them is to what extent is the source legit?

Let's just say it's legit. Okay, fine. And there are varying degrees of what's legitimate. It doesn't have to be

so-called legacy mainstream media to be legitimate at all. the patterns of consumption, the ways that people are

consuming media has drastically changed, right? In influencers and websites um

that weren't around 5 years ago. I mean, they have growing influence. So, I'm the point here is not to say, well, you

either need to read the Wall Street Journal or nothing, right? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying is the source legitimate? And if it is, does it

have a bias to it? Right? as right left or right or whatever right many news

sources are yes news sources but they are biased

news sources right so I think the first thing is you just have to be aware of that you have to be

aware of the idea that you are consuming inherently biased content that is

designed to get you to think or continue to think a certain way. And hey, you may

uh think about that and decide, well, that's okay, fine. That's the kind of

content I want. That's okay. At least you're aware of it, right? Because a lot of people consume this content and they

think they don't even realize that it's inherently biased and it's leading them in a certain direction. At least

understand it. If you understand it and still believe in it, okay, fine. I mean, it is what it is at that point, right?

And then you get into is legacy media dead, right? Now,

here's one we could go on and on about all day. Oh, it's huge topic. Here we are in our 10th episode, right? We could

talk about sports all day, right? Legacy Media. I could talk about that all day and I know you can, too. So, is it dead?

The answer for me is no. N O. Period. Full stop. Now, are there serious issues

that are facing legacy media? Absolutely. Absolutely. This whole, you

know, as Elon Musk likes to say, everyone is media. Um, there's a certain

amount of truth to that. Absolutely. Uh, social media has taken over. It uh

provides anyone and everyone the opportunity to say what they want to say. And sometimes people position

themselves as experts on certain issues. So they come off as appearing like a news source even if it's just one

person. So everyone is media in a sense. Economic issues have been working

against legacy media for years. This is not a new thing, right? This is a trend

that I would argue social media has accelerated, but it's not like social

media started it, right? And so, for example, you look at the decade of the

2000s. Okay, here's this pop quiz. Pop quiz for the day. You ready? Of the top

20 circulation newspapers in the year 2000 or this

might have been, I'm sorry, in the year 1990. So now I'm covering two decades,

1990 through 2010. In 20 years, what was the one newspaper of the

top 20 in circulation that actually grew in circulation? Just think of a think of a

city that exploded in population between 1990 and 2010.

Huh. That's that's actually a tough one. I'm thinking about it because I'm thinking that time reference is a little

bit hard. The hint is think sunbelt.

Oh, think sunb belt. Yeah. Yeah, because that's where everybody's been moving.

Should I think Atlanta Journal Constitution? That's a very good guess. That's not it.

I'll give you one more just so we keep it moving. But I mean that's a perfectly

good good guess. Uh Charlotte Observer.

No, probably another good I would I would I should I go up in I I should go

up in size. I mean those those populations probably have grown between

1990 and 2010. I'm thinking go more go more west. Okay. Go more

west. Going west. I'm driving west. Um. Geez. And And keep going. Keep

driving. I doubt it's in New Mexico. I I mean Phoenix. I Yes.

Seriously. The Arizona Republic, which is the uh standard bearer newspaper in

Phoenix, was the only one whose circulation grew in those 20. That's

unbelievable. I don't have that factoid in front of me, but I've written about it before and I'm pretty sure I'm right

on this. Oh, it makes makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. Yeah, has

exploded. But but so have other probably Atlanta and Charlotte. I mean, they've exploded, but the circulation of the p

of the main paper in town went down, right? And so I guess the point is this is it's not like it's not like legacy

media, and I include newspapers in legacy media in that. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's not like they've just

started to go down in circulation since Trump came to the White House or anything. No, no, that that trend

started a long time ago. Um but technology changes

um and and other changes have resulted in economic issues for newspapers. It

means there are fewer journalists around. There are fewer newspapers. There definitely are fewer fewer

journalists. So, all right, I'm going to give you another pop quiz. So, I'm an adjunct professor on the

side. Can't help it. Pop quizzes. I love a good pop quiz. You ready for this? How many PR people are

there for every journalist? What's the ratio? I believe this is you of PR

people to working journalists.

H. I could go crazy crazy big. I could go crazy small. Let's say 150.

150 to one. Uh-huh. Oh, and Gellman, our producer, is guessing 1,000 to one. So,

I like where you're going. The factoid I looked up is is surprising to me because it was quote only six to one. Only six

to one. That seems too low. And the factoid, this is from a Gallup poll. Remember what's the source, right?

Totally legitimate source. This is literally from two months ago. Um, oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm mixing up two

things here. I'm going to get to the Gallup thing in a minute. I apologize. So, I don't know how current the six to

one is, but I think it's fairly current. But I also agree that I'm surprised that

it's not much higher all where you guys went with it. Right. But the point is fewer journalists, right? Yes. Fewer

legacy media outlets um and um you know

and as such there's less content. So I'll give you a sports example from Los Angeles. The LA Times

sports section is an iconic property in Los Angeles. Everyone loves the LA Times

sports section there. They always have. It's a big deal in LA. The LA Times sports section still exists, but they no

longer include box scores. They got rid of them, right? So, you can still go to

the LA Times sports section and see articles about the games commentary.

You're not going to say any box scores. You got to go to the website for that, you know, or you got to go to the Dodgers, wherever. It's not in the It's

not in the sports section anymore. Mhm. Mhm. And then here's the Gallup thing. The third thing that's really killing

legacy media right now is lack of trust. Just basic lack of trust. And this is

this yes was a Gallup poll two months ago. According to the results of that

poll, trust among Americans in mainstream media is at its lowest point

in history at 31%. 30 less. Wow. Wow.

Trusts the main mainstream media. Now, uh we try not to get overly political

here, but let's face it, you do have the president of the United States lambasting media on a daily basis. He

won't let the associated press of all people into the uh briefing, White House

briefings. Yeah, I do believe that there is a direct effect that that trust has gone down in great part because of not

just him but him he and other people um giving the media a hard time and it's

it's a tough time to be a journalist. It's a tough time to be a legacy journalist and so things you know now if

you're legacy media what's the other reason people don't like you these days okay this is my opinion right okay go

with it and this goes to your point because they're in the middle right

they're the ones more than anybody else who are in the middle now are they

always in the middle maybe not mo But most of the time my

cons Yeah. Yeah. My conservative friends will say, "Well, the media is liberal, is biased." Yeah. Right now, I used to

be a working journalist. That's how I started my career. And I do accept I do

I accept the premise that most working journalists I I liberal is is such a

gaslighting word, but let's just say left of center. I accept that. I also

believe I believed it then and I believe it now that most working journalists despite that do their best to be fair

and objective. I'm not talking about editorial content commentary on

broadcast. I'm talking about basic news, right? They do try their best to be fair

and objective. And guess what happens when you're now being

fed the stuff that you want to see that

you know the stuff whether it's right or left you now have access now mainly

through social to information that is biased

according to what you want to see. So stuff in the middle doesn't necessarily adhere to you

because it shows both sides. You see what I'm saying? Right. Kind of like the ref in a football game. Who? When the

ref is doing a good job and both teams dislike him or her, it probably mean

that's a good probably means they did a good job. Right. Right. So in other words, unless it something is giving you

whatever you want in your echo chamber, it's bad,

right? So this I mean all of these things have kind of piled up.

Yes. That journalist agree with that getting are just just it's just a

nightmare right now. I guess my point is when you're consuming content, you need to just be aware. You need to be aware

of the uh you know the the bent of the

source that you're consuming. If you want to just consume right of center stuff or left of center stuff because

you now have that option, good for you. Fine. Whatever. But at least be aware of

it. And I would just say, you know, try to be open to content that doesn't

exactly line up with what you believe. because that doesn't mean if you're over here you need to all of a sudden adopt

media way over here. Try on some legacy u media content for size because it does

see both sides and the more of us that do that and I understand that I'm preaching now. The more of us that do

that maybe more of us do start to see the other side of things a little bit

and start to move back to the middle which is the point of your article. Yeah, I think those are all great

points. Well, let let me paint a little picture. It's a little bit different than the one I painted at the beginning of the article, but um I grew up in

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, which is a steel was a steel town, you know, very

industrial, a great place, just a a great city, a great town. When I was a

kid, we had the Pittsburgh Press, which was an afternoon paper. M with the P

Pittsburgh Post Gazette, which was a morning paper. Yeah. You'd have beat reporters, and they still have beat

reporters based on where you live and what industry you operate in. But, you know, there was a guy at the Pittsburgh

Press who would cover industrial stuff. There was a guy who would cover political stuff. There was, you know,

what have you, science, lifestyle. Um, there were deadlines, you know, every day the deadline for the press or the

written press, stuff that came out on a printing press was 5:00 p.m. And if you

wanted to get something in the paper, you wanted to make sure something didn't get in the paper, that was your goal line. You you saw 5:00 p.m. Um,

weekends, you know, the the end of the day on Friday was a goalpost. Today,

that's entirely different. Look at what the internet has done to the world. Every news source 24 by7 by

365. If you're a person who does media relations or uh you know virtually any

profession, you've got a constant source of news and those deadlines we always

said existed don't really anymore. They they do if you want to get into the New York Times or great, you know, great

traditional um publications like that or the Washington Post. even even the USA

today. Um, but for the most part, news cycles are continuous. They don't have

end points and that's a huge adjustment on the part of PR people, on the part of

reporters, on the part of all of us who consume media. And it changes the way

news is presented. It's it's like an ongoing dialogue versus, hey, it

happened, we printed it. Hey, happened, we broadcast it. The the other thing I'd

bring up is credibility of the sources. Um, you knew you knew back then that if

you got into the Wall Street Journal or New York Times or Financial Times or, you know, the Washington Post, those

were huge credible organizations and and they had a great deal of legitimacy and

believability. Um, and today that's not as clear. I mean, they're the wire

services which have always been pretty good. um AP, Dow Jones, Reuters, but now

there are all these different sources of of news and you don't know who to believe. If you're a person with an

agenda, we all have our own agendas. You could go out there on the web and say anything you wanted. You could become an

influencer, a blogger, all these different people, and you could be in Gnome, Alaska, out in the Hinterlands.

Um something happens there and you put it on the web. Well, you have as much access to the world as we do here down

in Dallas, Texas or they do in New York or I mean it doesn't really matter where in the world you are. Yeah. And that's a

huge change. That's a huge difference. And how can we bring it all back into the middle? Why can't we all be friends

again? Why can't we disagree? Why can't I say to John, you know, I I don't agree

with you, but you know, let's go grab a beer afterwards. You can't do that. which is nuts. Don't we all want to be

on the same page at least socially? And that's where I'm at. You know, when I'm talking, if you read this article, I'm

talking about, you know, why can't we bring it in to the things that really matter to people day by day? And a lot

of those people, those things are boring, but they have a huge impact on our lives, on our ability to provide

electricity to our house, and our ability to feed our families. Why can't we all just start to coalesce around

that again and not way out there on the extremes in terms of issues that hey

they're really important but do they impact us dayto-day? Probably not. Here's how political everything is now.

Right? If you are a company and you have all of your, you know, you have a page

set up on every major social platform including former Twitter now X. Yep.

Um, I have been involved in corporate conversations where uh the feeling is we

need to get off of X. They've gone too far, right? We need to get

Here's the problem. It's not really the problem. It just is what it is, right? Um, if you do that, if you get rid of

your ex account and just post elsewhere or you keep it

uh and you post everywhere but there, that in and of itself is a

political statement. Oh, absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're trying to you're trying to avoid it

because you don't like it. Well, uh, so I mean everything's a

statement now, even if you didn't post a word on it. Now, the reality is like X or not, I

mean, it is a force. It is a powerful. I wish I had the where maybe Gellman,

maybe you could look it up here while we're talking. How many users are there on X? The number is enormous. Enormous. You

cannot. So, so I would argue that if you my argument would be like them or

not, Facebook, LinkedIn, uh

Instagram X, uh whatever threads is is the new one. Um you got to be on all of

them. I you need to be on all of them. A because they all have audiences.

You might not like everyone who's on X, but oh well. I mean, they're an

audience, right? Why would you want to cut off your message from so many

people? And B, the other reason be just on every one of them is because again,

if you leave one out, you you're making a statement. You're showing some sort of

bias that is not a consumption of content. comment. Now I'm kind of

morphing into content creation or content distribution, right? They're all

for a reason. They all have an audience. Um, and so you've got to um you've got

to leverage all of them. I really agree with that. And I'll bring up one other thing that I I don't think we've touched

upon is who controls the media. If you go back 30, 40 years, you I bet you you

couldn't name who the publisher was of, you know, major newspapers who owned

major TV stations. But if you go out there now, who owns the Washington Post?

Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon, who who could never heard of him. Yeah.

Who's that? Who is that? Um, who who owns the Wall Street Journal? Rupert

Murdoch. I mean, these are not unbiased people. Um, and you look at the source

of the news and you can see those inherent biases built in, you know, who who runs Fox News. Um, again, you're

you're in the Murdoch camp. Um, so things have really changed and I don't

know how you control that. Anybody has a right. I mean, we're Americans. We, you know, still have the first amendment. we

have the right of free speech and anybody could go out there and start a newspaper if you had the capital. Um, so

you know that's another thing that mixes into the whole environment that you know was a complete wild card. Um, John, you

were you were about to say something so I I didn't want to interrupt you. No, no. Uh, I I I love that the publishing

thing. I will say this a little bit of devil's advocate. Off the top of my head, I seem

to recall that in the really olden days of newspaper. Yes, the

publishers were very apparent and had a lot of power.

True. William Bradleys of the world. Um, New York Times was viewed as a a

liberal, right? Liberal paper. Yeah. So I I would argue that the way that

you're describing it now where the publisher very visible and oftentimes

clearly biased, right? It's almost like back to the future. It's like we've gone back to the early days of newspapers

when or media outlets when the publishers actually did have agendas back then. Over time that seemed to have

evened out a little bit, but now it's gone back to what you're describing. Exactly. I don't know. But um all right,

here's another one. Um

authenticity. So to me, the key and and and this is what I'm about to say is

this is something that we would almost

always advise our clients to do and to be is to be authentic. When you are

creating and distributing content, the market today expects you to be authentic

to speak in and and this is especially true for younger consumers, Gen Z and so forth. I actually had a discuss Oh,

Gilman says, "Yes, be authentic." I had a great discussion with my inclusive

advertising class earlier this week at North Texas about authenticity and

content. The market expects you to be the real you, not a character. If you're if you're a podcaster, if you're an

influencer, they don't want you to be a character. They want you to be who you are, right? And um uh because otherwise

they'll just move on to something else because they don't trust what you're pedalling whether it be a product, a

service, or just a set of opinions, right? Um, then you get into the whole AI thing. Now, you talk about a tough

Oh, God. Right. I mean, we should we should do a series of podcasts on AI. We um did an exercise on Monday of

this week in in that advertising class where the students were asked to create an ad. They had 30

minutes all through AI. Really interesting, really interesting um

exercise. And on one hand, and the reason we did

this is that apparently chat GBT has a new version coming out and it

significantly advances the ability to create chat GBT. GPT PT just came out.

Yeah, Gilman says it just came out. New version apparently significantly accelerates the ability to create things

like ads. And I mean literally 10 minutes instead of 10 days, right? Oh.

Oh, absolutely. So, this is a scary thing to a lot of people, right? And uh

the student who brought it up and this all kind of took off almost on its own

uh valition in the middle of the class. He looked at me and said, "Well, RIP

creatives, right? You're out of luck if you're a creative person because guess what? Now it can happen in five

minutes." And so I said, "Okay, let's let's um let's all create an ad." And on

one hand, the ads the students came up with were pretty darn good. I mean, some

of them were like, "Wow, that's that looks like uh it was done through a

photo shoot and that person looks real and that person looks real." But you know what? the more you started to look

at it, you started to be able to poke some holes in it around lack of

authenticity, right? Absolutely. So, there were there was one person who, if

you really looked into it, they had these weird spots in their arm, right? Because of the technology, not because

of the person's arm, right? There were like the way people's hands were facing

like there were things like if you really looked at it, it clearly was not done by a human. And all of a sudden now

you're trying to save time and money. Nothing wrong with that. But now start

to look inauthentic, right? And so you've probably done more damage than

you would have even if you'd had a maybe an imperfect photo shoot and an

imperfect ad. You see what I'm saying? Um and another thing you you talk Oh, go

ahead. Go ahead. No, no, you're absolutely right on AI. That's going to change the world. And you know, there's

another con um things coming along quantum computing that's AI dwarf in

size. Um, and that's an entirely new thing and I don't know if you've tried it. I know Jack I've used chat GPT which

boggles my mind how good that is and if there's a version that's even better coming out and think of all the

alternatives AI wise I don't know how the world controls

that. I think that it comes to a point where um the machines may take over. I I

I don't want to think about that. And there are humans out there. You know, they're never going to get beyond us.

But um some of this is kind of scary. Um and I don't want to be one who's alarmed

by that because hey, um science, technology, they all cut new paths in

the world for us and even inverse. And I don't want to get in the way of that, but it comes to the point that who do

you believe? How do we know that it's a person who put that art that thought out

there? How do we know it isn't just a smart machine? So anyway, I'll leave it

at that. But Yelman is raising her hand with a question. Started raising my hand. I love that. So I don't have to

cut you guys off. That's perfect. You got a yellow hand though. It looks like you never adjust your diet. I know. I'm

feeling a little bit jaundest. Yeah. A little bit jaundest. Yeah. He's either gonna say actually do have a question or

she's gonna say you're gonna get cut off because you're going too long. No, no, I

actually have a a comment to add here. Um I think what you said, Daddy, about

the details in the ads of the AI creation being off, like something just

feels wrong almost like you're not looking at something that is real. Um,

and I think where a lot of people I think I mean I think people who have had the internet as a a readily available

tool their entire lives I mean I would consider myself as part of that. I mean I remember AOL I remember dialup but

I've also had that my whole life. So um I my generation of people looks at AI

and can see it instantly. We instantly see all of those details that are wrong.

And so what going forward I think um marketers and communicators need to um

embrace AI. I I put this in the chat but it it provides an a great jumping off point. You know it it allows um people

who might not have those senior level skills to offer their creative advice and offer their creative points, right?

They can provide some outlines of what they think might be um poignant or useful in the market. Um, but really we

can see the consumer can see right through an AI ad. Like if I see that a company is using AI to create their

marketing materials, instantly I have a negative connotation with that brand

because they are not providing authenticity to your point. Right. So that is what we're looking for and I

think it's really important um especially senior level um executives to

be paying attention to those tiny details in their marketing because it will make a difference for people call

it 45 and younger. I I I agree with that. I I get that. And even with me, I

could go to YouTube now and I'll see all kinds of stories out there that are teased really well. And you'll see ones

that have like a really um interesting headline that's something

unbelievable or whatever else. And you'll go in and it'll be 10 to 15 minutes of content that really never

comes to the conclusion that's teased there. Yeah. And you'll notice along the

way that maybe the person they're talking about, the last name, they pronounce it wrong. Maybe there are a

couple different words that could be pronounced in different ways and they pronounce it wrong. Maybe the voice

doesn't have inflections in the right places. And you know immediately, you know, immediately that was AI produced.

Yeah. And uh so I can I can see it now. I couldn't at the very beginning, but I can see it now. So Gellman, that was an

excellent excellent point. That was an excellent point. Thank you. Boy, I'm really enjoying this conversation. I

think this is so interesting and so important. I just think this is a really important topic for our field and for

the world. Um maybe one other comment when the student was saying, "Well, RIP creatives, right? Mhm. There's another

thread out there, Jeff, and you were talking about media relations and how six PR people to every journalist,

right? Well, there's a school of thought that says media relations is dead because just be done by computers,

right? And I'm sure there's some truth to that. There are some pitches that are generic enough that you can utilize like

again I I'm I it is what it is. AI is here. Accept it. Not just accept it,

embrace. Embrace what it can do for you. Say the same thing. Yeah. Just don't embrace it blindly because you cannot

lose the human brain power, the nuances that come from us. How does AI

necessarily know what to say to one journalist as opposed to another journalist? the AI doesn't have the uh

relationship with that journalist and all the different nuances that have come

from, you know, the countless conversations you've had with that person. I mean, I

I'm I'm not talking to Jeff right now. I'm talking to the camera. I'm talking to the world. Like, this guy right here

is the best media relations person I have ever seen. And people have heard

me, Jess say that about him many times. I'll say I think you're over the top a little bit on that, but that's okay. No,

no, I I don't back down from that. And the reason is among the reasons is

because of your ability to build relationships over time with key

journalists. And I have seen up close and personal that those relationships have generated

quantifiable and and qualitative benefits for Jeff's employer and for his

clients. And so a computer can't do

that, right? A computer do certain things. Absolutely.

And um so anyway and and none of this gets into the you know that it's generative

so it's based on prior learnings but you know so may that's fine but what about

new learnings that it doesn't that that it's not taking into account you know

there's there's all sorts of holes here. I do think it can and should be used for

certain things, but it can't just automatically replace creative directors

and PR people, right? And for straight news, it makes sense. But once you get

into the fringes of that and opinions on news, it really doesn't. I think there has to always be a human element in

there. And I'm going to take this in a wild direction. Oh, I like it. I like

it. Wild direction. AI is showing there there are new ways to craft history. But

I don't know, there's a part of me and and it's the part of me that I wish

weren't a part of me. When I see what's happening in the world right now, I hearken back to the

1930s. And what happened back in the 1930s? Well, we had a depression that changed the entire world. Um, we had

stark political differences. We had a country in uh in Europe uh that was

going through economic distress, needed leadership. Um we had another country

over there that felt the same way but not to the same extent. So what happened? You know, first the media was

condemned. Uh the government was really taken over by extremes versus, you know,

if you take a look at Germany, what was there before the Hitler regime? Um, and

these people became populist people that everyone could go to and oh, he's going

to save us and he's got these great messages and uh yeah, it doesn't matter if we oppress a whole race of people. It

doesn't matter. We need to get to our ends and let's not think of, you know, our country versus theirs. No, we're

nationalists. The only country we care about is us. And if we have to take over a few to to make that happen, let that

happen. So, you know, there is these strange parallels to the really the

beginnings of fascism. And I'm not talking about particular people, although I'll let you draw your own

conclusions on that. But we have to be careful. We have to make sure the one

thing that matters more than all our principles as a country, you know, the

principle of free speech, the principle of hey, everyone can vote. um the principle

of um you know freedom of expression. We can't let those things go. And if we do,

who are we betraying? Well, we're betraying 250 plus years of history and

the fact that we've got the greatest country on earth. And uh you know, I see making America great again. Well, I

guess my argument there is we're already great. We just have to become better.

and uh and if we don't have the trust of our allies, we don't have the trust of

our people, you know, that's really something very important that's kind of thrown out there. And I don't know how

you can separate politics from journalism, politics from news, politics

from people. The the only thing I'd add to that is uh part not part but a core part of a free

society uh of a healthy society is a free press.

Absolutely. And um so yeah again uh be be aware of the content you're

consuming. Be aware of the content you're creating and distributing. Do your homework. uh to

make sure that you're telling the truth um and that you're reading the truth. Uh

and I think we'll all be better off. So with that, why don't we move to conclusion and we started with the final

four. So your heart says Auburn, my head says Duke.

Um, so we while we may have missed our chance to to predict the final four, we

haven't missed our chance to predict the winner of the 2025 World Series. And so

because the baseball season has just begun, um, why don't we pick who we think is going to win the pennant, the

the two pennants and the World Series winner, I'll start with you. And you

can't What? I can't. What can I do? You can't say Auburn for the World Series.

Well, if they were a professional team. Now, if your mother-in-law has a favorite baseball team, you could pick. I I could do that. And if I had to bleed

college into the pros, you know, I'd go with my alma mater or Penn State. But,

um, so I grew up in Pittsburgh. I've always been a Steelers fan, but, you know, I kind of converted moving down to

Dallas area and everything else. But but you know, if I have to take a look at

in let's let's go to let's go to baseball, which is more than fair. I was a Pirates fan growing up and I slowly

transitioned into a Rangers fan. Yeah. And if you do this with your not even your heart, if you do it with your head,

I really think the Rangers could be a huge surprise team. They're four and two right now. They've got a great pitching

staff. They've got great hitters who have not shown anything yet. So, I think

they look really good. And then you go over to the National League side and how

could you say that the Dodgers aren't a generational team? Yeah. Um with Show

Otani and everything else. So, I think you've got these franchises that have built themselves into these juggernauts.

Now, the Rangers are not a juggernaut, but they're well coached. Um I think they get along as a unit. So, I think

that's really important. um you know, if you want to go to the different divisions, I don't I don't feel I'm

qualified on some of that stuff. Um and my heart is is always with the Pirates,

but they just they can't do enough to to improve um to get to where they need to

be. But that's that's that's what I see next year. I see a a World Series this year between the um the Rangers and the

Dodgers. And um again, going with my heart, definitely not with my head. I

picked the Rangers to win it all. Good for you. I think that's uh that that all makes perfect sense. I'm going to I'm

going to go with my head. If I was going with my heart, I'd say the Angels, who

are also four and two, shockingly. Yeah. Yeah. Uh Angels are not good. We'll just

leave it at that. Now, if I'm going with my head, it's I'm going to say Dodgers for sure. And um I'm either going to go

with the R I'm either going to go with you with the Rangers or I say watch out for the

Cleveland Indians, right? Who've been Yeah, that's always a compelling pretty good years, right?

Kind a little bit under the radar. Um uh thanks in part to the Yankees and

others, but I think the Indians could be a factor. So, I don't know. I'm I I I'll go Indians just to be different, but it

it to me it's kind of like I'll go back to the beginning. Duke basketball is just I just think they're so above

anybody else. The Dodgers, part of me says, "Why are we even playing the season?" Like, they

spend so more money than anybody else. The playing field is not equal. It's

actually really annoying. And uh I I just don't see that any other team has a

chance. So I think it's all about the Dodgers this year. Yeah, I think if you look at it entirely with your head and

not your heart, yeah, you'd have a hard time turning away from the Dodgers. Um all right. Well, good episode again, uh

our 10th episode. We hope you're enjoying uh this uh give and take that we have on various marketing and

communications related topics. uh we do have fun thinking in advance about

what's the topic going to be and and uh and we really do enjoy these discussions and I thought today's was especially

good. Um please follow us on our social um platforms. We always post this across

all of them including X, right? We don't leave we don't leave anybody out, right?

Again, can't be said enough. Happy National Burrito Day, right? That really

does look Go out and and have a burrito. I'm gonna have a little bite of this tortilla here. Um

nice. Not entirely fresh. And we'll leave it at that.

Thanks everybody. Over to you. You don't like the furry green burritos? I like those. Oh god. Um no. You know what?

It's one of those rare occasions where we were in a dialogue and and somehow my emotions got set off and I've got these

juices pumping through me right now that I'm not used to. I love it. I think that makes a session a good one.

So, I'm gonna I'm gonna sign off by saying, and this will sulty, but we love

you and we hope you end up loving us. And it's going to take time because we're both acquired tastes. But um but

as long as we can make you think, we don't care if you agree with us, but if we can make you think and make you say,

"Hey, you know, these guys are pretty smart. They can frame messaging for us or whatever else. I'll make this a

little ad for us." Um that's a good thing. That's a good thing. So anyway, let me close out by saying I love you. I

hope you love me. Yeah, wheels are off. The wheels are

off. So anyway, we will see you soon and uh have a have a great week. We'll see

you in a little while. One, two, three strikes. You're out.

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