[Music] Well, welcome uh everyone to On the

Offense. This is our 11th podcast uh since going uh going back to last

November. We're really really excited about today's edition. Uh as you know,

we uh normally take a timely or otherwise newsworthy topic and dissect

it from a marketing and communications perspective. We're certainly going to do that today. But before we do that, we do

hope everyone uh had a good Passover and Easter. Uh both of those periods are now

past us. We are recording this on Easter Monday and um uh we do want to say rest

in peace uh to Pope Francis who uh passed away this morning. Uh we all

found out about it here in the United States when we woke up. Um but he had passed away earlier in the morning in uh

in his home at the Vatican. And so uh I certainly feel his loss. Uh I am not

Catholic. Uh but I did go to a Jesuit high school and he was a Jesuit. In

fact, I think the first Jesuit to be pope. I think that's true. And so I

always maybe Yeah. Yeah. Even isn't that it's that's surprising, isn't it? But I

think I read that and so I always as even as a non-atholic felt felt a pull

to him. Uh and so I'm feeling his loss as is the world. So uh today we are

thrilled. You can see an extra face here um as compared to the norm uh that we

are featuring a guest uh for the third time. We're really excited about the discussion we're going to have and I'm

going to turn it over to my colleague Mr. bomb uh to introduce our guest.

Jeff, over to you. Yes. Yes. And I'm excited about today's broadcast because it really is topical. Um as all of you

who are listening or watching know, the US is going through a huge uh transitional period which has you know

provided quite a bit of uncertainty and pain and really adjusted the view of the

world towards us. Um, I don't know if you followed the stock market, but we're down another,000 points on the Dow

today. We've gone from 44,000 down to 37,000s now. So, that is a lot of money.

Yeah, it's a lot of equity out of the market. Not good. And, you know, they have a 10% tariff on everyone in the

world. And, you know, these this idea of retaliatory tariffs. I mean, it's really a time of the unknown. Um and we are

exceptionally pleased to have a guest on our program today. This is Malcolm

George who um back in our EDS days or you know John I think you were already

gone but Malcolm was in charge of our government affairs in Europe, Middle

East and Africa. um he served that same role at a couple of other companies and is well known in that community and he's

uh certainly global in his opinions and um he looks very relaxed in his setting

in in France now. So um Malcolm I turn it over to you just you know give us a

little background on yourself and then we can launch in with the hard questions. Welcome Malcolm. Thank you uh

and and really great to join you. um you know great to have worked with you in

the past and uh I can say the guys at EDS shaped my career whether it was EDS

then with HP running Europe and and and in Dell where I was lucky enough to meet

Europe and then also uh also in the Far East in India and uh Singapore, Malaysia

and uh get a feel for for work over there. So a broad feel and I think you

know looking at changes now and the world we live in and so much happening

in the world I I'm lucky enough to have a bit of distance from it now which maybe gives me a bit different uh

perspective and allows me to um stand back a bit from being at the cold face

of doing government affairs and and maybe just have a slightly broader view and you know Just chatting to you guys

is really why I'm on the call because uh it's always been interesting exchanging ideas with you guys. You do look

relaxed. I will say that. Yeah, it's uh living in France, I very

close to the vineyard. We worry eternally about frost at this time of year, but uh the temperatures have held

up. So maybe a decent vintage. You never know. We might get some good wine this

year. We we are looking forward to it. Yeah, it's we're going to have to pay a huge tariff. You'll have to pay a huge

tariff. It kind of counters the tariff. So, you have to hope there's a lot of it

and prices dip a bit naturally. I like that. I like that. This is a product, Jeff, for which I will pay extra. Of

course. Yeah. The law of supply and demand. It's definitely in place here. And, you know, some little

tariffs slapped upon the people in Europe. It's not going to it's not going to affect me unless it's over the top.

So So anyway, let's let's start out. I mean, from your perspective,

Malcolm, how has the the view of the US in the U because Malcolm's from London,

he uh he worked out of London recently, or three years ago, I guess, relocated

to France. But what's the perception of the US in the UK and then separately in

continental Europe? Can you give us how has it evolved? That distinction's worth

making, I think, Jeff. Um, you know, the UK left the European Union through

Brexit. And so the perceptions are slightly different between continental Europe

within the EU and and the UK post Brexit. across Europe. I think if you

look at the big issues that are impacting the US, uh the ones that have played loudest and

have probably had the most focus have been very much the Ukraine and then

tariffs. looking at the other stuff that I think is very much occupying US minds that

maybe playing at a bit lower volume if you like it's probably the legal and

university issues and to an extent the immigration issues it's just simply that

thing that what directly impacts you and what's directly impacted Europe has been

Ukraine and tariffs and maybe less so more domestic issues haven't played as

loud out. They're still getting talked about, but they're just not occupying the man in the streets view of of the

US. Um, approaches on both issues slightly

different. I think there's a a harmonized view around the Ukraine issue. uh Britain's broadly aligned with

France and Germany and Poland and the Baltics that it's been brought to our

attention, you know, these countries have to pay more money for defense. All of us do. We we've had a bit of a free

ride for a while and I think there's actually oddly a common support for

that. Um maybe if it could have been done in a way that was a bit less of an

abrupt shock that would have helped but you know Europe's Europe's pretty much

aligned and you can see measures being taken to increase defense spending and

it's a big focus. Tariffs is where the distinction

comes. Um, the UK being outside

Brexit, relatively new government, 7, eight months in

now, real problems on growth in the economy, has adopted what I think you

would best describe as a very consiliatory approach to the states. um

invitation to meet the king, very much highlighting there

aren't great trade imbalances and fundamentally looking for the sort of

trade deal that um you know could could help the UK economy when the

government's struggling to get growth and struggling to get growth in the economy. Europe's slightly different. I

mean Europe's going to negotiate as a trade block. you know, individual prime

ministers don't have the right to do trade deals. It will be negotiated from

Brussels by Ursula Vanderelion. And I think whereas you could caricature the

UK as in a slightly weak position, the European Union is a very significant

block and they will maybe take a less consiliatory approach to the United

States and that could be a r much rougher I think negotiation than than is potentially in

place for the UK and we'll see how that goes. it it's making big news here

obviously both issues and it's affecting public opinion but again I would say

some of the surveys I've seen I've seen the UG poll recently it'd be incorrect to portray it

as some sort of uh Americans not welcome we open up the barriers a lot of the

issues that the Trump administration is addressing are ones that apply in Europe

Europe and a lot of the most political popular political parties in Europe and

the UK are actually very similar in outlook to the policies Donald Trump has

put forward. So you look at the UK and the Reform Party currently tied in the

lead in the UK. Italy has a coalition that is fundamentally a populist driving

coalition. Obviously, you know, Auburn in Hungary, but also the popular right

in Germany is doing well in the Netherlands is is significant force.

Spain has populism. So, it's not as if we're looking I think Europe is looking

on a scant you know what is happening in in the US. I think quite the opposite. I

think there is an acknowledgement and understanding that if not supportful but

acknowledgment and understanding that the pressures and the decisions that

have been made in the states are actually securing popular support in Europe as well. Interesting. John, any

any questions come to mind, especially from the marketing angle? Yeah, boy, my mind is racing based on everything you

just said, Malcolm. It it is interesting to hear that, you know, it's not like everyone in Europe is looking at the US

saying we've lost our marbles, right? Doesn't sound like that's the case. How about the media coverage? Um, when you

say that uh there's a certain understanding of what Trump is doing. Is

that from a leadership perspective, politician perspective, I

suppose? And and to what extent is that mirrored in media coverage? Is the US

getting rad over the coals in the press or is it more moderated or what? I think

again it's more nuanced. I think what has caused surprise some ways is not the

measures implemented in the US but the manner of it, the speed. You know, I

think European politics is in some ways more traditional in that that sense. the

respect for structures, organizations, uh,

constitutions, the US, the media, I think again you have to remember media

ownership is a global thing. And so you've seen, you know, News Corp

and the media at Murdoch Empire. You've seen other global media outlets

um struggling in some ways to cover this. The knee-jerk would be to pop be

populist, be very critical of the US, etc. I think they've tempered their

coverage somewhat. um have struggled to find new angles. I

I would hate to be a print media columnist at the moment because a the

world is moving so fast. So anything you've written on Monday morning, it's irrelevant by Monday afternoon. Yeah,

good point. But also the thing columnists have always noticed love doing is saying you might

think this is insane but you know in fact it's there's all this logic to it

and I think they've struggled to get that angles as well. Um though on

tariffs say I think there has been over maybe the last week a lot of attempts

to counter the say tariffs bad free market good. There have been people

trying to find ways to suggest that economically tariffs are maybe can be

justified in certain circumstances, dumping etc. those sort of areas. So

yeah, tough environment for the media. Everything's changing very rapidly and

um I don't think there's been a consistent outrage certainly not from

the global media. Mhm. Interesting. Interesting. So, speaking of the media,

I mentioned this in our precall. Uh I saw a story on ABC News last night that

said these companies said they will will not have but will raise prices in

response to Trump's tariffs. Uh and so it's just interesting going through this

list. a couple of uh Chinese companies, Shien and Timu, um they have both uh

released statements saying that they would increase prices. Um

Nintendo, Best Buy, which I'm assuming is a US-based company. Is that that must

be based in the US? I think it is, but so many of its products are sourced from Well, good point. Global supply chain.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's not just uh overseasbased companies, right? Hermes.

Please tell me I pronounced that correctly. My wife would be ashamed of me if I did not. I heard Hermes, but I I

you know, I I used to go to Hermes. You had I don't know. Autozone and

Ferrari. So, a Ferrari is not going to cost more. Uh oh. Now, now we can't

afford it, Jeff. Those are just some examples. So, it makes me think, you

know, when you have to announce a price increase, what does that do to your

overall marketing and communications? It must have an effect. You I assume that if you're you're announcing this

publicly and in the within the context of a very public situation, what are the

things that you have to do differently from a marketing and communications perspective? Um that article Jeff you

sent us over the weekend I thought was really good about the internal audience.

You know you have to make sure your employees understand this is coming before it goes public before you

announce the increase in prices. You also and and you know I mean we've been through Jeff you and I and Malcolm I'm

sure have been through so many crises. You know what's the playbook

right? I mean it's inform your employees but not just your own people. You have to let in advance. You have to let your

uh your suppliers know. You have to let your customers know. Um you have to let

your strategic partnerships know. All of these things should be going out in

advance before things are are announced publicly. But Malcolm, what do you think about that? I mean, what are some of the

things that you either think that companies should do differently with marketing and

communications or maybe you've seen some examples of that already? I don't know.

I'm surprised individual brands are going out as early. I mean, I

think if I was sitting with the CEO at the moment, I'd be

saying focus on your business, focus on the core things that

we do, and work in so far as we

can with our competitors, our industry, our industry bodies.

You know, if if Ferrari is going out there saying

we're going to increase prices, the reality is that most European car manufacturers are going to be doing that

in the US. That's what tariffs do. If I was advising CEOs, I'd be saying, "How

well engaged are we with our industry bodies? How well engaged are we with the

European Union's trade representatives in DC? If I was a US company, how are we

engaged at Amchu, the American Chamber of Commerce to the European Union? How

well engaged are we with automotive manufacturers of the US in Europe?

And I would be using those bodies to broaden the

discussion away from individual companies and taking it to sector level

because you know the the tectonic plates of politics and foreign trade are

shifting. And the last thing you want to be is an individual company standing on

one of those plates as they shift. There is there is strength and there is

um common cause that limits your downside

risk and yet allows you to communicate clearly

without risking your brand reputation to quite the extent that going out there on your own.

that that where I would be. I think all these discussions need really good and effective trade bodies, industry

bodies working for their membership personally. I mean that makes sense to

me. Jeff looks like yeah from my perspective so much of what's happening here in the US and the way the companies

and individuals are reacting is fear of retri retribution. Easy for me to say,

right? um from uh from the current administration and that's why Malcolm

certainly agree with you you know to let the industry organizations be the

spokespeople because true you don't want to be an island out there as the tectonic plates shift and there's a

possibility of you know retribution from the government either from the president

or from you know that cost cutting organization that's been set in place. So, um, no, I think that's I think

that's very wise. Um, any other thoughts about the way the world's moving right

now? This this move towards um, nationalism? I I there's a very good UK

Yugo poll from end of March and um, it

was kind of looking at approval ratings of the US and European countries.

Um it was interesting the biggest if you can imagine pre US elections pretty much

across Europe there was a favorability attitude to the US of around high 40s

low 50s somewhere around there and it was you know with a few points here a few point there pretty uniform

um they've tracked it and the most recent one I saw saw for um

unsurprisingly biggest drop Denmark because you can't have the Greenland

issue and not necessarily and see a consequential drop. So from in the case

of you know favorability towards the United States it dropped from 49% to

maybe 19 which is pretty sharp

but that's kind of an outlier and then you move into the main body of opinion

and the US is still polling favorability high 20s

low30s across most of Europe, which you know, a third of the population is

pretty favorable after everything that's happened. Uh, and it, you know, was only

up at 50 beforehand. So, where you tend to

see higher ratings for the US tends to be in those countries that have maybe

greater empathy to the more populist rightwing. So the lowest drop

was in Italy, you know, where Prime Minister Maloney was over last week in

the States. She hosted JD Vance this weekend in Rome. Um, you know, and the

Italians broadly, whether it's on the issue of defense spending,

Ukraine attitude to Trump are some nearly an outlier. They actually don't

want to spend more on military, don't really want to be involved in Ukraine and generally don't seem overly

confirmed that Dolce Vita lives. Then you get sort of Germany and Britain in

the middle and then Denmark you know more disapproval.

My sense is uh there is a reasonable understanding that if one meets an

American in the streets of Europe, that American has every biggest

chance of being a nonsuporter or a supporter of the US administration. We

know that from polling numbers. And there is a big chunk of people who

frankly have forgotten the issues and will move on and they will you know we

all of us necessarily eat drink think politics economics markets and

communications most people don't and most people are I think this summer will

be pleased to see tourists as as I said to I struggled to

tell the difference between a Canadian and a US accent. If I do speaking

English, believe me, French, Italians, Germans really struggle. So, you know,

it it's it's not mass but negativity. And it's not Europe against us. It it

doesn't feel like that here. It's not like that in the media at all. It's uh

it's an atmosphere where deals have to be done. life goes on and we have to make the best of it with the challenges

that have we face and as you know those tectonic plates that shift keeps

happening because God knows it's it's not over yet. No, you're absolutely

right. It isn't over yet and some strange dynamics. You know, we've had a wonderful relationship with Canada my

entire life, you know, going back through my ancestors lives. I mean, that's a wonderful relationship. And

when this rift appeared, um, I think was a shock to all of us, but also huge

shock to the people in Canada. So, just to try to explain that's really hard. I wish we I wish Caroline or Gilman, our

producer, uh, our unseen our unseen to the masses producer here. And we love

her. Just so you know, she's fantastic. We love Gilman. and Malcolm, we'll have

to tell you another time why we're calling her Gman, but um her younger sister just spent the last nine days in

Italy with her in-laws uh and husband. And uh before she went, I was nervous. I

admit it. I was nervous that my American daughter was going to Europe because I

thought she might get harassed. Now, she's going to Italy. But that but I think what I mean part of that is just

parental paranoia, right? But part of that is there is I mean Jeff tell me

what you think about this. There is a you're you're you're pushing back against it in in the sense that you're

giving us a re your view of reality from from there but from here a lot of us are

assuming that everybody kind of hates us right now. Right. Is that fair Jeff? I I I think it

is fair. And just, you know, for background for everyone, I have a son who teaches English in Spain, right? And

uh and we visited him last year and he said, "Oh, the view of the US is not very favorable, at least here." And um

and he talked about it. He he gets an earful wherever he goes. Oh, you're an American. Um I think sometimes he

pretends to be a Canadian. Um so yeah, it's it's a tough atmosphere. In Portugal, too, they they kind of felt

the same way. Um, so I've heard that, you know, at the same time a lot of

people just don't care because it doesn't impact them directly or at least it doesn't now, but it probably will in

the future. So yeah. Well, by the way, I I asked her when she got back, did

anybody harass you because you're American? And she said, no, somebody made a comment that, oh, typical

American only speaks English. But I said, "Well, I went to Europe for the first time a long time ago and I heard

that then." So, I don't think that has anything to do with the tariffs. I I think it's it simply reinforces in

some ways what you'd always hope tourists are wherever we go that we're

culturally sensitive. you know, if you think your baggage is up on the weight limit for getting on the plane, maybe

put the MAGA hat back and, you know, don't take it with you. Um, I I think if

you're sensitive and you're sensible, just as we would be if we went to Dubai or we went to Saudi or we went to Jordan

or, you know, wherever it may be. Yeah. It's just the same here. You know, be

sensitive, be intelligent, be interested in the local culture, ask people how

they feel. Don't be ashamed to be who you are. The end of the day, you know,

it keeps going and uh, you know, hopefully we can all keep traveling

freely around the world. Well, hope I I wasn't sure I was going to the French Open, but I'm going now. Jeff, you want

you want you want to go to Paris for the French? Oh, I'd love to, but I've got

I've got obligations here, John. Got obligations. I'm not sure what they are, but I have I I want to say this is the

9-year anniversary of Brexit. I want to say that was 2016. Does that sound right? It was either that or 27. I think

it was the vote the vote the actual process to extricate ourselves

and get a deal uh has only been in place what four years now. It took a long

time, right? It took several. So we said, "We're leaving." And then the getting the divorce settlement done,

you know, inevitably in involved a lot of lawyers and a lot of

hard lawyers like situations like that. Yeah, for sure. So, and it's it's a

fascinating point to me what you brought up that there's there's strength in numbers that you were saying that that

the uh the European Union, the EU has power in being able to negotiate

as a block as a large block whereas the UK is kind of by itself now by choice of

its own voters, you know. And by the way, that's something we should never forget in the United States either. This

was the vote of the people. Um that that you know and I are thinking everybody hates us. Well, it's not like Trump was

voted in by a minority of people. He was the clear winner. And so it kind of is

what it is. But I wonder I mean from a UK perspective does this given your view which makes sense

to me that they now have to manage this as a small independent block as opposed

to part of a larger one. Does that embolden within the UK the anti-rexit

forces? Is there any sort of I told you so we shouldn't be going about this on our own? Yeah, I

think it it's was for me personally embarrassing.

Um, I'm not particularly I can't recall an occasion in British foreign policy

during my lifetime where we have gone quite so cap

in hand and on bended knee to the extent we did.

Um and and you know that's real politic that is where Britain finds itself and

um I wasn't overly comfortable with that but it's what had to be done. The UK

economy needs growth. It will have problems if there's a major stalling of

the economy because of tariffs. So, we have to plead for a special deal in or

Britain has to plead for a special deal. Um, is it slightly embarrassing? Yeah.

You know, frankly, you look at that Oval Office shot of the envelope and you're

cordally invited to afternoon tea with the king. It's a bit, you know, um,

embarrassing from a country that I knew and I grew up in. just to explain a

little bit if it if it's worth it. The problem Britain has is that um it also

needs to improve the trade deal it did with the European Union at the time of

Brexit in in 2020 2021. And in terms of scale, Europe is

twice the size as a trading partner as the US.

It's not perfectly binary, but there is a real risk that in

coming to an agreement with the US, you make a trade deal with the

European Union even harder. And there is also talk at the moment of potential

poison pills where to get a trade deal with the US, the US will require a trade

restrictions on the EU. So Britain is having a real juggle. The

time scales are very close. They're talking the next few weeks for a potential US trade deal. They're talking

maybe September for a European Union one. The one that really matters the

most is the European Union, but the one that's coming up

first is the US one. So Britain's having to be a bit clever about how it does it. And

there is a chance that doing one deal with the US could undermine with the European Union. So um yeah, it's all to

play for and potentially quite nuanced. The one that has throughout my

lifetime stopped a trade deal with the US is the major huge issue of

chlorinated chicken that will raise your eyebrows.

But Britain has never Europe never been able to get a good trade deal

with the US because Europe won't admit chlorinated chickens which is

something you have in the US. It is you know how something becomes tomic is in

the scheme of things it's unimportant but you ask European

consumers or British consumers will they accept chlorinated chickens there's outrage if you ask American farmers why

can't you export your chickens to the UK and Europe it's chlorinated chickens

apparently that's off the table for the deal with Britain at the moment but

That's how trebles get. They get caricatured. It's like it's all about chlorinated. I am. That is the term of

the day to me. Chicken. Chickens. Go and have a look. Google chlorinated

chickens. But now I know why certain chicken tastes like it does. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So, a chlorinated

chicken, a chlorinated chicken is when you wash chicken meat in chlorinated

water to ensure that the meat has low levels of harmful bacteria, viruses, and other contaminants and is safe to eat.

Fair enough. Interesting. Fair enough. And we do try to be as nonpartisan as

possible on on the offense here, but isn't the chlorine in the water thing

part of what RFK Jr. is talking about. No, he's talking about fluoride. Oh,

fluoride. Chloride of chlorine. Fluoride. Is there is there such a thing

as fluoridated chicken? It helps their teeth. Those hens teeth

are improved by fluoride in the water.

You believe so nice. Yeah. Oh, there's too much fluoride in that chicken. Yeah,

I knew it tasted weird. Boy, this is fascinating. Here here's one for you. I

guess I know what you're going to say, Malcolm, but I guess if I am listening to this and I am a CMO for an

American-based company that has a product, maybe has a global product launch coming up, doesn't sound to me

like there's any reason not to go ahead with what would be my normal global roll

out of whatever this product and service might be. Yeah, I guess so. I I I would agree with

that. Um I allowing that your product you you're probably sensitive to market

dynamics in individual markets. It's not a onesizefits all. Um you understand

that different markets are behaving in different ways and different attitudes in those markets. Um I would come back

and and you know to the role of the industry association as well. you know,

make sure you've got the guys who understand the local market, of which

you're a member probably. Oh, yeah. Engaged and understanding so there's no hiccups in

the road. Um, no, keep my firm view at times of crisis is keep running your

business. You know, more than anything, don't be sidetracked. If you can keep

going, focus on your business, keep yourself out of the political arena,

just keep doing what you do for your employees, you know, for your supply chain, for your your

stockholders, all of those people. Keep doing what you do, but be sensitive to

the environment you work in and get best advice from people locally. I mean,

that's great advice. Are we ready, Jeff, for my prop? Uh, I think I think we are,

Malcolm. Are we ready for John to roll out? I'm bracing myself. Yeah, I've been

dying. Go ahead. On the offense, viewers know that I like to have a prop. Uh, we've

we've terrorized Malcolm up front um that I'm going to do something silly here. It doesn't have anything to do

with chlorinated or fidated chicken. Um, I have brought with me a worthless

trinket uh that I obtained at Labour

uh the airport in France. Yeah. In 1999 at the Paris Air Show. And it is a

uh uh this it says the spirit I don't know if you can see it the spirit of St. Louis which was Lindberg's plane and as

we all know he left uh I assume it was New York I think it was New York um and

he flew uh across the Atlantic landing at Labour outside of Paris and in doing

so became the first American to fly solo across the Atlantic. And I and I guess

this is a uh this is a uh what is it? It's a pilot's alarm

clock. And so you know, you're up there. Oh, it's it's you and the birds up there

and this is a a small device you could use to I suppose make sure you didn't

fall asleep um as you flew to the Atlantic. But I remember being at that air show in

1999 and uh realizing where I was and I had grown up being a huge fan of

Lindberg and that flight and uh it was a real cool thing for me to be at that

airport. And the Paris Air Show is coming up again. Um it is uh I know they

alternate between Farmboro in the UK and the Paris Air Show. I'm pretty sure Paris is odd years, so it should be

coming up in a couple of months, probably. I mean, less than two months, usually early to mid June. I I went in

the mid 2000s and really enjoyed Labour. Um, it's like an old airport. I'm sure

they must use it in films. It's sort of Oh, I'm sure that I'm sure they do. those those landings that you see from

the in film set in the 20s and 30s. It it feels like a proper old but yeah big

fan of Yeah. No, I've kept this in my home office ever since and u and and one

of the reasons we were I in this is the year before I joined Jeff at EDS, but

the reason we were there I was working for Honeywell at the time and actually I

had worked for Allied Signal. We acquired Honeywell, although we took their name because they had the bigger

brand. Uh, we announced the merger slacquisition the week before the Paris

Air Show. And then we all got on the on the flight and flew to Paris and did a big thing at the air show uh to promote

the acquisition. And it was a big deal and exhausting, but one of those kind of once in a-lifetime career uh situations

you don't soon forget. But uh uh but anyway, so and then I when I got this

off the shelf in my home office, I realized you you got the Brexit 10-year thing at the beginning the beginning of

the Brexit thing 10 years next year. But believe it or not, it's in two years. It

will be the 100th anniversary of that flight. It was May 21,

1927. So we're gonna have an anniversary here coming up. I'm assuming they'll do something at at Labor.

Well, if you want to come over, do you know where they are? You You got vacant bedrooms. Well, vacant rooms. We can We

have space. He has He has extra space. And he's surrounded by worldass

Chardonnay. Incredible. Incredible. What a life. I I'm thinking I'm thinking taking of

taking on the offense on the road, Jeff, and doing a podcast from Burgundy in the

summer of 27. Well, it beats it beats going to Waco.

Yeah. And it it beats Dallas in summer, I'll tell you that. Oh, it does. It does

in a huge way. Huge way. Uh Jeff, I will uh turn it over to you in a moment to to

thank Malcolm for his time. But but Malcolm, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have really enjoyed our

pre-calls. I've enjoyed this immensely. I've learned a lot and I suspect that our viewers will as well. Thank you for

taking the time. We really, really appreciate it, Jeff. Yeah, Malcolm, that

was really enlightening. So, I'm I'm really glad you could join us today. Hopefully, we'll keep in touch and and,

you know, keep on getting your point of view on these things that are impacting our world. But, it's been very very

valuable. and uh and we thank you for being here today. Well, we should thank you guys

because you know to be honest the best years of my career were at EDS and work

with Jeff and I think we all everyone who was touched by EDS comes away with

uh a common common sense of what it

takes to be in business and be in comms and um no they were the best years so

joining you and having a chance to re-engage both of you. It's It's fabulous. And I agree with that

perception. Those were those were my best years as well. Jeff, you know, you

know what we haven't done yet? We haven't explained I mean, it's clear why we would want Malcolm on this, but

we haven't really explained the part about how he's part of the client's first network. We have two requirements.

If you want to be part of the client's first network, we have now almost 50 people in our network and so Jeff and I

promote ourselves as the founding principles of the firm which we are but uh and we feel good about our experience

and the expertise we bring but in the end we're only two people. We have a network of about 50 people and there are

two requirements to be in the network. Number one is you have to be somebody who uh we have worked with before and as

a result trust you, trust your work, respect your work. U we do have some exceptions of people we haven't worked

with before but we know enough about them that we feel good about having them in the network. But the second rule,

Jeff, is the more important rule and you have to be someone with whom we would like to have a beer. And so Malcolm, I

would love to have a beer with you. Not to mention a little Chardonnay, although that's where I was going. A little Chardonnay, maybe Chardonnay, you know,

whatever. Right. But, uh, Malcolm's a great

example of the talent we have throughout the network and and the wisdom and the

wisdom and the wisdom. And he's also an example of people we have in our network outside of the United States. We are

building an international network. Most of the people in our network are in the US, but we have a handful of people

outside. And this is a good example today of the value that uh we gain and

hopefully our our clients gain uh by having this type of wisdom available to

us. So Jeff, back to you to close. I agree with everything that John has said. Malcolm, your insights were

fantastic. Um and I'll bring it to a close. Um, you know, we uh we really appreciate the support of all you folks

out there. The numbers viewing us seem to grow every week and um or every two

weeks. So, we we appreciate that. We hope it keeps on going. I hope you've had a great um holiday season with

Easter and Passover. Keep us in mind clients first

mc.com. Um and please view us on our different social networks. We are

everywhere. So, um, again, thank you. Thank you for making us global. John,

thank you for making us likable. And, uh, uh, we'll see you again very soon.

Thanks everybody. Thank you, Malcolm. Bye-bye.

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